CryptoBasic Podcast

Your source for all Cryptocurrency information, made for the novice investor. 

You are violating the rules personal future outlook that's that's three green cards for you one more you're getting a purple go on, mike wait why're you giving green cards to people of all people?

Karim:

Oh that's so like this weird soccer reference of the rod colors and racism that was also a thief hello, everybody and welcome to this edition of the crypto basic podcast my name is karim are ok and you are currently listening to a part of our wanna one siri's a collection of standalone episode where we explore coins, concepts and projects from the ground up here with me today in order to break down all the information that we will want about this project are my fellow co hosts michael laki well ana and brandt philbin hey, i'm here i'm not gonna flex but well i don't think they could see mikey flexing alright, so guys, are you excited this i think this is the first time that we have an a athletic endorsement on mike right that this is the official crypto currency of the nineteen ninety to pee wee hockey league champions.

Brent:

Do you have official crypto currency of the mighty ducks?

Mike:

Is this correct?

Karim:

Well, they were just called the duck's back then became the mighty ducks afterwards when they you know became more famous the back then it was just the ducks and ducks fly together ah, well, i think i have been exposed to somebody who doesn't remember the movie that well and just wanted to make a joke about it.

Mike:

Well, it was my idea.

Karim:

Is that all?

Mike:

Is that all of us?

Karim:

Yeah.

Brent:

So anyway, as you guys can tell from the title and from some of our little john oliver mighty ducks references, we are doing eel skies.

Karim:

This's a big name we've been waiting for this project we've been waiting to do this episode.

Mike:

This is something that the people have been wanting.

Karim:

Yeah, i mean it's really up their market cap, which is warrant any hurry because you know, they weren't in any her either.

Brent:

Have you seen that mean where?

Karim:

There's like there's a stick figure and he's like holding actual stick and it's like poking a symbol and it's like, hey do something and the bear market?

Mike:

I feel like that should have been designed for you that awesome.

Brent:

Okay, guys, so we're going to actually go and dive into this project now before we actually get started.

Mike:

We like to do a quick disclaimer just to have an idea.

Karim:

Tell us guys, if you own any eos and even if you don't let us know what were some of your preconceptions or bias is going into this research, yeah i'll start off here, and this is something that the two of you would say is more of my one of my pets more than yours.

Brent:

Personally, i have owned relevant amounts of theo's in the past.

Karim:

I currently own zero that's, not to say that i don't plan on getting back in at some point.

Mike:

Truthfully, i'm very conflicted and my conflict shin is going to show itself over the course of this episode.

Karim:

There's a lot of pros there's, there's, some concept i'm not sure about, i mean, should see how this plays out.

Mike:

Awesome brand, what about you?

Karim:

Well.

Mike:

I remember doing some research when eos was starting to get a little bit of buzz last year and i also remember bringing it up later when we're talking are like telegram chats before we even started the podcast people are talking about investing in eos and they asked me what i thought and i was like i don't like it i researched it enough toe where i stopped researching it i didn't like it and i couldn't actually say why like i knew i stopped for a reason and i didn't know what that reason is.

Karim:

I kind of know now that i've done like more more research to figure out where i'm at on the project but i had a negative opinion of the project john oliver didn't help matters he did a good job of roasting this things so i would say that overall i do it i had a negative opinion to be else going into the project okay fair enough guys so we have some positive some negative and i have no knowledge of eels going into the project.

Brent:

My situation with the o's was simply that i ran out of money to invest before i got around to researching it so you know, i was just focused on other things that's going to allow me simply the rule of the audience so my job is going to be asked you guys questions for those you due to the podcast asu's cream, got the top five, he was broke, so you get a chance to look anywhere else.

Karim:

Yeah, yeah, basically went all in on the top five.

Brent:

All right, so let's, start with the vision of yo's, who wants to take this, guys, give us a big picture.

Karim:

Just you know, give us the tagline, what's up with you.

Mike:

Their goal is to be the most powerful infrastructure for decentralized applications and that's going to sound awfully a lot like a recycled tagline because it's really common their focus is going to be scalable, flexible and usable.

Karim:

I see brent had a little note here and that he wants to call it the fear i want killer.

Mike:

They want to call it that, and i got mixed opinions on that being a tagline.

Brent:

Okay, hold on a second.

Karim:

Here i'm moderating brent, why are you choosing to call this deviant?

Mike:

No, stop it!

Brent:

It's dan latimer.

Mike:

Wrote a theory.

Karim:

Um killer, he hates ethereum, i guess.

Brent:

Who is that?

Karim:

Well, since you know, i'm glad you asked, so i'll go into the history of the coin. Dan larimer is the creator of both bit shares and steem it, and he is the creator of eos as well, you know, started there, i seo in june of two thousand seventeen, it will be finished in june of two thousand eighteen, and they've gotten a little bit of flack for that because it's taking so long and we will discuss a lot about dan larimer through the rest of this episode he's polarizing in the community, and i'm extremely conflicted about how i feel about this guy. I'm not sure what the best point of the episode is gonna be to talk about that, but i've got a little soliloquy ready for them.

Brent:

Do you guys know that? Ah, that mean what i think is like woody harrelson or something is like wiping his tears with dollar bills. I'm pretty sure that's going to be a then lammers reaction to this episode, but it is worth noting, yeah, give us a little bit more about the history, right when it came out, they had a really shady terms and conditions that people were really unhappy about.

Karim:

I cannot find it on the web any more. I even went and kind of just looked at the code and searched for the quotes, but i've seen video and screenshots of these terms and conditions, so i am convinced that they did exist, and this may have been the thing that turned me off originally, so here's what they said, theo's tokens have no rights uses or attributes theo's tokens do not give any right use purposes, attributes, functionalities, features express or implied, including without limitation. And he uses purposes, attributes or functionalities or features on the eos platform company does not guarantee and is not representing in any way to the buyer that theo's tokens have any rights uses purpose, attribution, functionalities or features.

Brent:

So that was kind of like a a little bit of early blemish that they got rid of where they were kind of just truck i'm sure they were just covering their ass is, but it looked like you're buying these tokens, but you're not really entitled day they covered them a little too hard.

Mike:

A decent portion of that quote is still on the website in the section, okay, it's.

Brent:

Almost word for word, some of it it's definitely left out parts of what you said, but theo's talking do not have any rights, uses purpose at streets, functionalities or features daddy outta that entire thing is still on there having gotten rid of it, so i thought they did.

Karim:

No, i think part of why they included that is because in the epic you it's very specifically it's still a twenty token.

Mike:

So as of this point, you're right like the air see twenty token does it's just a placeholder.

Brent:

So that's something that we've had to talk about with many other projects dragon chain icon, to name a couple when they're in the r c twenty token and they're working on their own platform than yet like you have to have a placeholder toe launch the ceo before you move on your own change.

Mike:

I do have a question for you guys before we move on here, though, because i can't say that i'm very familiar with this concept of being an i c e o for such a prolonged period of time, can you guys go a little bit in tow?

Brent:

How theo's is it correct?

Mike:

Because i believe i've heard that you had multiple eye ceos, is that correct interpretation?

Karim:

I'll go ahead and i'll just tackle this so essentially they did a five day period i seo and this was what could be largely considered the first public sale when that did start june twenty sixth two on seventeen and ended july first seventeen and in that five day period they razed ethereum in exchange for twenty percent of the total tokens so you had one shot to get twenty percent of the tokens which was two hundred million so whatever they raised during that period was part of the initial fundraising mechanism they do keep ten percent of their total supply for the block dot one block one and that is something will cover a little bit later so what they decided to do they evenly distributed the other seven hundred million over every five days for the rest of let me see exactly it was in three hundred fifty consecutive twenty three hour periods and what they're doing is they're just saying these seven hundred million are to be spread out over this long period of time almost a full year whenever you decide that you wanna invest every five day block i'm sorry every twenty three hour block will produce a different amount of tokens so it's just whenever you decide to invest they'll release the tokens on the fifth day boom boom and there's this the first company that ran anything along these lines so it's kind of tacky. I understand why some people don't care for it, but you could definitely make the argument. This gives a lot more opportunity for people to purchase at different levels. In fact, in this current bear market that were in your saint dollar value will probably produce a lot more theory. Um, than in previous months. Therefore, you could earn more. You could potentially earn more tokens compared to other people that might not be investing right now, right?

Mike:

And it sounds basically from that description, mikey, that it's also like it's, not as good as a treasury, but it's better than a single ezio also in the sense of sprinkling some funds throughout. So it's, like strictly worsen treasury, but strictly better than a single ideo, where you get all the money and once it's it's the equivalent of launching three hundred fifty i ceos for the same products.

Karim:

And right, i mean, we have smart contracts. We could do that now, that's like one of the abilities that a theory and provides that you can do exchanges on a regular basis on hyde level and get away with something like this, not get away with that term. But just use this as a function.

Mike:

Understood, toasted, okay, i'll just mention one other part of this dan larmer originally when he ran bitshares when he left bitshares the reason he left was they ran out of money, so he has gone on to the other extreme and he's like, fuck this, we're not running out of money again.

Karim:

We're going to do this for a whole year while i develop eos interesting interesting all right, finish out the history, but the rest of it is fairly recent and someone interesting we mentioned the mighty ducks thing.

Brent:

Brock pierce played the young gordon bombay, so it wasn't actually on the team, but it's funny that he was in the money ducks commercial and i never would have known her my ducks movie, i never would have known that if john oliver didn't go dig it up.

Mike:

But john, now that we mentioned john all over a couple times that's a very important part of the os history it's the biggest exposure that i think cryptocurrency is probably ever gotten i mean that's john oliver's, big as it gets and for sure the biggest exposure eos has ever gotten and basic john over to shit all over one of their main graphics on their website has the three top three things that are good for us and one of them was usable and he thought that was hilarious.

Brent:

It is hilarious, unfortunately it's also a plus, because nothing is used like so few usable points compared to the number of coins that are out there that you, khun, try to invest in and invest in the future.

Karim:

So the day after jonah, we were also told you to google brock pierce scandal.

Brent:

So outside of broad piers, being kind of ah out there, character, you know, he's he's having crazy weddings at burning man.

Mike:

And he was elected to the board of the bitcoin councils have some bytecoin counts like i remember the name of it. When he was elected to that board, a bunch of members resigned because he was picked. They were like, no, not working with this guy.

Brent:

So his scandal was that he got involved with a couple of shady individuals that ended up being accused of pedophilia, where they were taken people across state lines to, like one state.

Mike:

It was okay to have sex with a sixteen year old. Another wasn't, or something like that. Only one of the little three people in their little tribe ended up getting charged with it, but he did have to settle outside court for a very small amount for something that was barely related to this. Anyway, at one point, he fled because i just want to clarify one thing just because you're telling this story, but this is about somebody that joo's was using as a promotional tool.

Brent:

All right? We're not talking about down there. We're not talking about a court development were using we're talking about somebody that was associated.

Karim:

Yeah, he was like their chief strategic consultant.

Brent:

I'm making that term up, but he was a consultant and he was used is kind of the face of the company for a period of time, like i'm john oliver.

Karim:

You see videos of him just saying this is going to change everything about everything and being really obnoxious with what he's doing also, john mcafee is in love with him. So in case you needed any more reasons, they think the guy's insane.

Brent:

So who was john mcafee?

Mike:

John mcafee is is the guy who said big win doesn't get the five hundred thousand by twenty eighteen he's going to use on twenty, twenty or whatever it was going to eat his own dick?

Karim:

Yeah, and he's and he's also.

Brent:

Ah, tech entrepreneur who made the knot of ira. But what do you make?

Karim:

Yeah, i think that's automatically attaches itself to you every time you would install, like adobe or whatever yeah, he did that so something that i was thinking about, i was hoping somebody would bring up mcafee.

Brent:

Kes, i planned on it myself.

Karim:

I feel like these types of extremely polarized figures. I definitely have the opportunity to get off the rails and be negative and have some downsides to their name. I also kind of like a little bit like i kind of like mcafee, i'm reserving my judgment on him, specifically, probably does some shady shit, but i don't know that he even knows that it's, shady shit like he's, very warped individual, and i have a lot of friends that are very work to do fiddles. I don't know of a little toward here.

Mike:

So, my ki, i i don't want to take us in too far of a tangent, and i promise i'll bring us right back. But brent and i had this conversation recently, and one of my opinions about somebody like him is there's, an old saying in history that when somebody becomes very rich, very powerful, whatever character traits they have are just magnified. Usually we power doesn't change you. It just magnifies everything. So when you get to an individual, that might have a little bit of quirks. But all of a sudden, you given millions of dollars and tons of power and people who are just bowing down to them. Well, that you get your connie a west or your donald trump's or your mcafee's, and you could go in the other direction, right? If you have great urgency, you can get your elon musk or something like that. But anyway, power and wealth tend to exacerbate character traits.

Karim:

The only thing that i want to add real quickly is that some of the things that lera mare and maxie do have in common that i think is a positive is that i feel like overall, if we want to rewind a couple of years, the crypto currency community is going to be highly. A technical community is going to be a lot of programmers, a lot of really advanced smart, maybe a little socially awkward people. And i think that people like these guys, they have natural charisma, natural leadership, and i think that it allows them almost to create a cult like following with people because they're so different from their peers.

Mike:

Yeah, i understand what you're saying, computed brock, right, not there, all right, and this is why you're talking about the mighty ducks.

Karim:

Did you know he was talking about dan paramour or somebody like mcafee got there might forget it.

Brent:

All right, so all right, guys, we got to get back on track.

Mike:

I'm sure we'll have a the reeling like that again, friend, finish out the history, okay?

Brent:

Well, i said a few bad things about brock here he kind of you know, the scandal google that yourself check it out there's a lot of results there about what happened with that i don't need to go into the rest of it, but what happened the day after john oliver skit brock piers was fired from it?

Karim:

He was like, oh is a as a partner and they is that it was just mutual had nothing to do with the show, but they also wrote a response to the john all over show a couple weeks later, that wasn't what i expected them to just kind of shit allover doll over, and they're like now we kind of like you, but you missed these good parts of eos, and by the way, we fired brock so even though it wasn't because of that, it definitely was because of that, like that that's, why they fired him and then it's also important note that this entire ceo all of these funds are being given to block one so block one is the company behind it.

Brent:

They're the ones that are going to control all the funds there's, nothing decentralized about them and the end of the history here is this is the company that dan lorimer started and he believes will be the end of his jumping from project to project the only other thing i wanted to add to the a history here is that when i was kind of digging through their history they've had three major joint ventures that happened in two thousand eighteen and whether you guys like it or not the big players appreciate some form of centralization and this is, you know, part of white ripples being very successful right now these joint ventures are very large there fifty million three hundred twenty five million and one hundred million each and they are doing what they deem best for the eos project is a lot of marketing involved there's, some fintech involved and everything is pointing towards this being a project that is very likely going to be one of the first players in the global acceptance area i think his resume is something that's an easy sell now it is dan a kind of a deuce probably but you know that's a whole different story for another game but they're doing a lot of major things very quickly.

Karim:

Okay, so let's, go ahead and move on to the rapid fire section.

Brent:

Theo all right, these are a series of yes and no questions that we ask the one and only brand philbin with the caveat that he takes the liberty to drag him on as much as he wants when needed so number one brent is eos a coin token or a platform as with most of the episodes that we've been recording lately currently a token plans to move off of ethereum network and become a platform okay, is theo's decentralized?

Mike:

All right, i'm gonna go with yes and no, no block one is not decentralized and eos has the ability to be controlled by eleven individuals, so we'll go into why, but it is somewhat decentralized if you can consider eleven individuals deciding its fate decentralised and just to make sure here by eleven you mean the number right after test, right?

Brent:

That's it wow, okay, i'm going to want to hear more about that can't be mined new cannot be mine.

Mike:

Okay, can it be staked if you're one of a certain group people, yes, but for most people know ah interesting ok, does it sound cool, right?

Karim:

This is a personal opinion question you get to start first of all, i know i don't think it sounds cool because i think we're all pronouncing it wrong.

Brent:

I'm pretty sure it's e aas and not theo's, but that's dumb to have it be a three letter word that we can't pronounce properly and just like john oliver said, the fact that they call their symbol a chest a khidr in is because it symbolizes the heart is pretty ridiculous all right, mikey, does it sound cool?

Mike:

Ah not really.

Karim:

And the other part, we like to cover a little more of the marketing as well.

Mike:

In this question, it doesn't even stand for anything it's not like if the three letters were part of an abbreviation, our initials for something that be way cooler.

Karim:

It technically doesn't stand for anything, and it's just like a phrase that means nothing he could stand for, like ethereum or something.

Brent:

I know, but okay, all right, i'm gonna pat myself on the back real quick for that one, guys, and we're gonna move.

Karim:

Von.

Brent:

We're going to get to the features and structure the core of theo's.

Karim:

Brent, i'm going to take this to you, start anywhere you want, but be prepared for me to stop you and ask you questions when we don't understand something.

Brent:

All right, i'll start.

Karim:

What we teased a little bit ago so it works off of a delegated proof of steak algorithm just like steem when we talked about steem before it works very, very similar, so there are twenty individuals that are voted in that can be the steak er's of a of that particular blockchain and there's one random individual that's voted in for the staking, so each time there's a block that comes out that last random individual gets peace if they're trying to be one of the witnesses, so you have a very small chance of getting some reward, but for the most part, the reward is going to the same twenty this wasn't something that i considered a massive problem on steem because most of the steem rewards were being distributed to people who were doing there or up votes and down votes and all that kind of stuff.

Brent:

But i know the black hordes are kind of small and again there's some tweaks that they're making because they're not live, they're not out there only on a test net, so it may change by the end, but those twenty or the ones who get to kind of make the new eos right ten percent of all the u s went to the like we said before went to the block one foundation and all the rest of it they get distributed, dan claims that it can do ten thousand transactions per second that would be significantly faster than the current steem platform that i think he's basing it off of because a lot of this seems very similar, so the fees are going to be next to nothing if not zero and in the end their governance is going to be handled by a constitution.

Karim:

That constitution is not available yet, so you're investing in something with a decentralized governance that has the ability to be controlled by eleven individuals, but it has a constitution and you don't know what the constitution is because they haven't released it or maybe even made it so that it's kind of a red flag to me, but what i mean by it can be controlled by eleven individuals is of those twenty people, if ten of them vote yes on the proposal and the eleventh one votes yes, than those eleven people decide the direction of the blockchain so bright i have a question for you, i'm sorry because you were talking about twenty people in eleven people.

Brent:

Are you saying that they're structuring this in such a way that on ly there's only going to be twenty nodes minting blah?

Karim:

I'm a little bit confused college, it'd prove six, so they're witnesses, right?

Brent:

So other people are delegating the votes, but those are the only possible when right you can go, you must vote for who you want to be a witness.

Karim:

And if you if you win your votes, you become a witness at least that's how it works on steem and it seems like it's the same way as with a lot of these, i would probably need to have some coding knowledge to give them there and really hammer down exactly if this is how it's working but you can get voted in in and out.

Mike:

So if you do something wrong, theoretically that people could vote you out.

Karim:

I just twenty seems like such a small number of people have up there.

Mike:

We've talked about this, unlike the ark platform where there's fifty one delegates and it's a little bit more malleable, i like it better than just kind of ripple, for instance, picking who they're witnesses are or a little bit better than neo.

Karim:

Also, they're just kind of get to choose them.

Mike:

That's, right?

Karim:

Neil has only got a couple.

Mike:

I was about to mention that, but i think neal plans to increase that number over time.

Karim:

You're saying that uses will always just be twenty like that that plans.

Brent:

That's their plan and they're sticking to it.

Mike:

But again, they're operating on a smart contract layer where their transactions are supposed to be ten thousand per second.

Brent:

That is ridiculous.

Mike:

That is almost enough to run a decentralized exchange.

Brent:

Maybe you need a little bit more than that, but i mean that's faster than visa, that is faster and anything else we have out there, you could run smart contracts at that speed and be able to program them.

Karim:

I believe they can program in any language, correct me if i'm wrong on that.

Brent:

Being able to program those mark contracts in any language and stick him on top of the platform is huge.

Karim:

Although one of things i will say is dan seems to think that the eleven people is huge plus, whereas i would consider the negative eyewash interview with him where he's, like.

Brent:

Well, bitcoin is controlled by four people because they have more than fifty one percent and cirie omise controlled by two.

Karim:

So we're way better than that.

Brent:

Yeah. I mean, i guess that's pretty interesting position to take eleven certainly doesn't sound like a large number and another. There are other projects that are trying to achieve a lot more decentralization. I guess it would be interesting to see how that develops as the network grows now. Ten thousand transact shins per second does sound very impressive, but i don't know how relevant is right now, right? I mean, where near that kind of demand for anything, right? You could easily use that as a use case for generating new things that we haven't thought about yet.

Karim:

Like we had an episode on gholam and one of the problems golan had was that it wanted to do these micro transactions. But it couldn't do the one the affair in blockchain because of the fees and because of how big it was so on eos. If you wanted to do ten thousand transactions in a second from micro processing, you could do that something that you can achieve, what they say they can.

Brent:

And honestly, it seems so similar to the steem platform.

Mike:

They probably can.

Brent:

This might literally.

Mike:

Be private labeling the steem platform tweaking it a little bit not calling it a fork and raising billions of dollars i don't know but again one of things i want to reiterate is it was not easy to find out why this stuff works they say it works and they're get hub is ridiculously active i mean they've got tons and tons of stuff in that get up and that has to be because that they have an incentive to continue to use it because people are continuing to invest in the coin over the course of the year what happens at the end of the year do they have any incentive to keep going or do they just take their two billion dollars and they're like all right we really need this coin or oh yeah here we go here's your coin that's basically just steem without the votes okay okay so i have two questions for you guys regarding the the testament and the eventual launch of the years blocking number one is the expectation that every user will get a one to one trade in on their tokens you have to register your tokens i believe by june first i'm gonna look that up right now it just kind of confirm that but the idea is you have to register your tokens a certain way and it's just automatically given to you okay it supposed to be a one to one transition okay.

Brent:

And then once it goes live, is there any mention of a treasury model?

Karim:

Or is it basically like these are the funds of their collecting period?

Mike:

And then it'll be going, and it should be self sufficient?

Karim:

I guess my question is, how does the project maintain going forward the way i understand it, the block reward, plus what tiny transaction fees they do have for, like gaining new i ceos.

Mike:

And that kind of thing will keep the witness's witnessing the transactions in the future.

Karim:

So that's, how those twenty people will get to keep using their rewards.

Brent:

Okay, is there anything else that you guys can tell us about the features and structure of this project, or how it's designed or anything else that you think we might have missed about it about the project aion include ah link here for how to register clanger eoe s tokens on something i want to do earlier, but it's got a video and steem guide for meta mask my either wall an exodus?

Karim:

Well, it's so we'll have some different options for you guys. If you have us tokens need to register them before june first, two thousand eighteen, and after that, the tokens will become frozen and no longer able be transferred in any way.

Mike:

All right, awesome. Thanks, mikey. Want to make sure you look at that link if you have any eels wanted to make sure you get your investments worth on the new net, right? And said questions. You may have mentioned this already, guys, but when is that blockchain scheduled to be launched?

Karim:

Its supposed to be launched on june first.

Mike:

Okay, yeah.

Karim:

Otherwise it's gonna function just like in the theory omise functioning ofthe smart contracts, its functioning with their deac player, their transaction layer. They've got a lot of random companies that they say are going to do there. I ceos on their platform soon as they go live. I think this is a good spot to talk about. Dan. I was listening to some interviews with him because i wanted to see what he thought about this project what's going forward. Why he's doing what he's doing and why we don't have great information about it.

Brent:

I started to like what i was hearing from this guy when i was listening to him so he said look, i made bitshares because we needed a decentralized exchange and we needed ways tohave stable tokens that weren't we have a dollar in a bank account the bitshares u s dollars pretty stable he created this exchange where they can move the money around pretty quick he says he thinks it's better to do a nice ceo on there than it is on a theory a my god s that's not entirely wrong because especially if you're going to take those tokens and move him off the network at some point the future it cost you nothing to make pictures tokens we could make them for the podcast that there's another podcast out there that has made a token for their podcast and given it away so he created that and fixed one of the use cases but he said he had some issues the first issue is they ran out of money they didn't raise enough money in the beginning and they couldn't sustain the platform because there were no fees involved in moving the money around i guess and i don't know if that's changed or whatever but this is just listening to his thing he wanted to change it so that there was an inflationary model he originally made it capt and deflationary and he said, look, we need to add more tokens this atmosphere so that we can continue to update the project he was voted down because he did create a decentralized and the people who voted against it they're like no we're not going to start doing a deflationary model so he gave up and stopped messing with that project so we left he developed steem it and one of the things that he wanted to esteem it was give the people the ability to distribute the money how they saw fit so that's why the micro transactions will create like a posts will make a certain amount of money for upwards and down votes because he wanted that to be distributed in a certain way now he said there's some problems with steem as well there are ways to kind of game the system and they have not found a way to get around gaming the system or there are ways to just be malicious and report people until they're gone even if they're not doing anything wrong brian, have you figured out how to game that system for we've gotten like at least a dollar as him nice, nice look for more blog's on that platform, by the way, we're kind of scrambling a little bit between some things that were going on our lives, but i've got some good ideas each one of us may be submitting our own little text, things that also take a look at the detail you might see some things from us, so he goes forward, he says that he learned from his mistakes and both his project.

Mike:

So one of things i didn't like when i originally looked this up was this guy just moves from project a project, then he just leaves it, but the thing is steem works exactly the way i want blockchain toe work that is, you don't know you're using blockchain unless you go to the back end and check it out the steem platform upfront is perfect.

Brent:

It is exactly what i wanted to look like.

Mike:

You sign up super easy, you can start using it just like you can start using facebook, where you can start using live journal back in the day.

Brent:

Whatever the hell it is, you can upload and download it's not difficult, you need to learn like the tricks of the trade, but you can use it right away and you don't know you're using blockchain.

Mike:

There are other block explorer programs where you can go on there and kind of, like, learn more and more, but you don't need it.

Brent:

You can use steem isa platform fine by itself, so that is where i see the future going.

Mike:

We don't need to know the inner workings of visa to swipe our chase preferred card, like you just don't, you know, you swipe it, you get some points and that's that, so it needs to eventually get that way.

Brent:

So i like that he's created two very usable pieces of this infrastructure, like bit shares works.

Mike:

It's, you usable, is not quite decentralized as exchanges, we'd like it to be, but it does what it's supposed to be sure we'll have an episode on that shortly.

Brent:

We like steem so it's, really tough to deal with the fact that this guy is kind of do sh yeah brian i was surprised as well so we talk a little bit about personal biases and all admit that i had a negative bias towards dan larmer just because there's famously a big fight between him and charles hoskins aion off cardano and essentially dan lammer went after cardano in public and raised a bunch of money accused them of stealing his work essentially and you know cardano responded a couple of things came down to like they used the term deep pos in their white paper but in the cardano white paper it doesn't mean delegated proof of steak and larimer was like accusing them of stealing it and even though this has been a pretty open source projects so my pain to be honest with you was pretty negative because i like the way that cardano has handled itself in general so this random accusation seemed unfair and i was surprised to learn that this was also the individual behind steem it for the reasons that you just described because we have to give credit to steam it for being one of the most unique actually work aion products in this space so you know overall was definitely split on it apparently there's also on old article from like twenty thirteen where he's throwing shade on ethereum and it's basically saying that it's an experiment it's probably not gonna work and obviously now eos is completely dependent on imperium to raise a bright and they're trying to basically copy and a crush uranium yeah, right, exactly.

Mike:

So i'm definitely pretty split on this guy, and since a lot of the negative stuff seems to be coming from him and lashing out at others, but as we talked about right, we have to be able to separate things.

Brent:

And just because this guy either handles things in an immature way or just because he's not a nice person doesn't mean that the project is not gonna work there's also pretty notoriously he's, one of the only people that satoshi nakamoto actually attacked and basically space li like, so she's pretty i mean, i feel like the overarching theme is that he wasn't really aggressive towards most people, but at some point he had basically stopped and say, and i'm summarizing a little bit.

Mike:

It was something along the lines of look like i'm not gonna like if you don't get it like i'm sorry, like i'm not goingto break it down to you.

Brent:

I'm not going to, like, bring it to your level, essentially and like, which for a complete, anonymous individual to have that approach it's kind of interesting to me.

Mike:

Yeah, i think dan from the beginning is kind of like why do we need this to take a long time?

Brent:

Why can't we just have ten thousand transaction per second?

Mike:

What can we do?

Brent:

I think he's been attacking ideas like satoshi is from the beginning just saying like this kind of dumb like we can't wait thirty minutes for our transaction to go through that stupid but here's my problem with him but also where it stops somebody like david sansa bo from iota is actively an asshole to people if you don't like his idea he will just shit all over you and be like, well you're a fucking eighty aion or whatever he does right dan takes a different approach which will not look nearly as bad to the public so he doesn't do that donald trump approach he does kind of like i'm not sure to compare him to but what he does is he says he kind of like makes sense but then compares everything to his projects so he wrote an entire thing about why or barrel sucks from cardano and all those arguments were okay well here's this part of war burrows and here's why steem it does better and here's why here's why eos will do a better or here's why bitshares did it better and he only compares it to his previous projects which is extremely self serving and he might even make valid points, but if you can't see outside of your own little bubble in your own little shadow, that makes me even if you were one hundred percent right, and you're not making any false statements, it makes me question what you're doing because your motives behind it are not aligned with mine.

Mike:

So i rambled they're a bit, but the conclusion to me is, dan is a deuce that has created a couple of working projects that seemed to be doing very well haven't been that they haven't found the exploits or anything like that, yet he is not an aggressive do sh he is the kind of guy that is going to make it sound like he's engaging you nicely and well, but everything he's saying is completely self serving, which at our core that's kind of how we all function anyways.

Brent:

Yeah, but he's also pretty deprecating of projects is not just my stuff's great is the other stuff's crap.

Karim:

You will attack other projects, but not people, so he'll whereas you have an issue with the iota project, they'll tell you you're an idiot, whereas if you bring up an issue with one of his projects huobi like, well, here's, the thing charles is an idiot, you know, like he text the projects rather than you, specifically, okay?

Brent:

So that was brent's way of wrapping up.

Karim:

Dan lammers.

Brent:

Hate there by starting another tension.

Karim:

So i'm going to move us forward here, to the pros and cons.

Brent:

And in order to make sure that brent doesn't start talking about dan latimer, i'm gonna go too.

Karim:

First, make so.

Brent:

Actually i was going to just i decided the stand lammer conversations need to be a pro and con so that's why i asked you guys if we were already there because listen i alluded to this earlier and i have a pretty strong opinion that dan lamb is probably freaking awesome what he does and he is probably only if he likes you he probably loves you he's probably really annoying to be on his bad side and i feel like he probably fits a very classic narcissist role he struggles seeing other people's points he takes everything a little too personally and i'm going to go a little concerned here and like i kind of like that in a project leader off this size and i think that it's certainly a trade off and i'm not saying this is all positive but when your project is so massive and has deals of this size like why do you think trump is quote unquote successful in business like sometimes and i have personal examples of this that i'm gonna choose not to name drop but there are ways that having lack of social skills can be successful in business unfortunately do have a couple examples of that so i don't know i'm not strictly literally is not an example you would have been better off if you took the money he first of all i never touched it you'd have more money today okay so we could have that this guy you know that that's a tangent that isn't that i get it i agree i don't think he's necessarily successful business person your point about big personalities is understood mike i'm gonna respectfully disagree if you say to me you can have a david so steem bo or a dan latimer compared to aa metallic baturin aura charles hoskins aion i don't even think it's close i'm going to go with the professional humble, open minded leader over the reckless destructive cult leader ultimately i agree with you i think the talents of the worlds are the outliers agreed i think they're incredibly rare and i think they're gifted and i think they're brilliant i think charles haas tinson is it's amazing i love listening to him talk way over my head but i enjoy it but those guys are freaking awesome but they're just not the time it doesn't they don't exist like there's so few of them that have that level of intelligence and our that humble so if you're going to invest anywhere outside of ethereum and cardano there's trade offs involved there's risk there's higher risk involved because there's just not enough of them some make sense if you're going teo title well, right now i'm just getting i'm just getting guys, i have my own issues with theory of long term, but we know you and i'm going that i think a lot of those issues are very for way have our official karim pronounce e ation air of the podcast, so we can actually get into okay, so this is like, probably my third or fourth effort, so if you guys don't start listing some pros and cons, it done involved dan glamour.

Karim:

I'm closing the podcast.

Brent:

Okay, well, i'll get the rest of the khan's i'm just going to run.

Karim:

I'm going to sum up the all the money being raised is being sent right into a centralized company.

Mike:

This company isn't even guaranteed to continue to update us.

Brent:

They don't have to.

Karim:

They can use that money for whatever they want.

Brent:

So that or me but but that's the same thing with every i seo so it's, like some of the ceos, at least put it into a treasury.

Mike:

This is not the case, there's, no treasure here so the money's completely centralized.

Brent:

You can get control of this block chain with just eleven people, the eleventh one before the twenty first.

Karim:

One doesn't matter of being random if you can have eleven of the twenty people agreeing with you and voting the same way, brian.

Brent:

I have a question for you here just to play devil's advocate, technically speaking, just eleven people could controlled this blocking, but being as though it's delegated proof of steak, isn't that a little bit like saying, oh, sixty people can control the united states, but it's sixty senators like it's not that easy to get sixty senators.

Karim:

I'm not sure how the voting, how difficult the voting process is ofyou steem a lot, and i've never voted for anybody on steem and i don't know how to do it, but i know you, ken.

Brent:

So you know what?

Karim:

I'm actually all right with there being barriers to entry for voting, i wish there were more very barriers to entry for current voting.

Mike:

I think we would have a much different united states boy.

Karim:

Okay, i regret my change, and i regret my taint, and of course you were going to say something totally on democratic move on next next kanda four complete doctor station, but i can't list that is a massive con if it's a little difficult to figure out how to vote for somebody, i don't mind that so.

Brent:

Yeah, and specifically, i think it's important to know, i actually agree with your point that eleven people tohave to to be able to control eleven people in their full control of network is not a number that i'm happy to see.

Karim:

However, since this's a delegated voting system where these people can fluctuate it's also not as easy as just getting eleven people in a room, right?

Brent:

We're talking more like trying to get a percentage of elected officials that's a little bit.

Karim:

Still, it could still happen.

Brent:

Ask putin, but i'm just saying, my guess is that once the twenty individuals are kind of solidified and they've been running the block chain for a certain period of time, it will be very, very difficult to vote them out.

Karim:

So at that point is when i would see the possible corruption so once seventeen mixin eighteen or the same at all times, then it's really tough to start a campaign to get rid of one of these people.

Brent:

And now twelve of them all getting a cigar filled room together.

Karim:

That's where i see a well been initially, i think that's fair, i think that's fair.

Mike:

Okay, what else?

Karim:

All they've got is white paper and a promise there, very active on the get hope, but i don't know how to figure that out.

Mike:

I mean, they've got our last episode that we record, and i'm not sure what order releasing season, but we recorded one on depicts where we're talking about forty commits on the depicts these guys air above ten thousand, constantly active, and then the final issue i have.

Karim:

I have this issue with every single brand new coin that pulls this shit is they have a random ten percent pre mile unstoppable, the ethereum that they're being given, so i don't understand why that's there, i don't know, and the pre mind is delegated to block one so it's not like it's in a tao or something like that that getting also ten percent of the eos tokens on top of the billions of dollars that they're raising and funding.

Mike:

All right, well, i think long time listeners know that branch a negative nancy so let's move off over to mike to get some of the positives.

Karim:

Alright, so i really enjoyed the think of that because i actually added pre mind to both a pro and con and print just kind of ran with it, and i think i definitely wouldn't want that kind of interesting that morning.

Mike:

And but the reason why i also enjoy that, because he's kind of wrong as well, the pre mind has done a very specific way.

Karim:

There were one hundred million coins as part of the ten percent pre mind, however, blocked out one get zero of them until one year after the us platform has adopted some us software, so that hundred million coins is actually broken down into ten years of ten percent, so they're basically going to get one percent of all of the e u s tokens per year, starting the first year after the successful launch of the software.

Mike:

So to me, that is a significant difference than just saying, like, oh, we got one hundred million of the tokens.

Karim:

Sorry about your look, it's actually built into a ten year smart contract that releases to them, based on the platform of all you know, what i'm gonna say about mike that's?

Brent:

They also is structured in such a way that it incentivizes them to keep working on the election and make sure that there's value that course on ly, if it's comparable, lingering on the money that they've already raised and i don't know what the price is or how much that it like what do you know approximately what one of us is gonna like it's five dollars, twelve that's yours okay it's people that if the eyes obviously we're way different but they get five hundred billion over ten years but we expect us to rise over the years so who knows what it could actually be to sing better than joyce just signing and i missed i missed that i just knew that they got ten percent signed them and i also know i realize we miss the big thing we're talking about us and how they're distributing the tokens because i didn't understand it i forgot to mention it, but they have this entire equation where like based on how many people are buying in like what's going on and all that they release it's kind of like an auction system almost right like the coins are being released at approximate market value via the ceo that we can't participate in because we're in the us but non us people can we actually did cover this you might have been chasing her around or something way covered house seven hundred million of the toke kans they get released in three hundred fifty equal portions over a year every twenty three hours they release one, three hundred fiftieth of the mason some and their ceos, every amount of it it's very simple.

Karim:

The amount of ethereum in every twenty three hours equals the amount of tokens out all the tokens of the same, but you just get an amount of tokens equal to how many people participated so truthfully, right now, you're probably getting a much better deal for a theory.

Mike:

Um, that you invest in, you would have, you know, while i was speaking but that's part of why i view this as a very unique system, but i don't think it's that bad.

Karim:

I wanted my closers, i like this better than a regular i see, oh, by the way, like, like, i do not like send us x and you get why for whatever, but one of the concerns i had was that theo's could just go buy their own fucking coins and put the prices up if they wanted to write, but they actually have an external audit for that.

Brent:

No, no, they're project for you that the next turn allotted for that so they cannot actually do that.

Karim:

And there are companies that are auditing them each time to make sure that they didn't find a weird ethereum address that was from them that was pumping up the price, so i was also good, so i'll go ahead and finish up some of the pros here we've talked a lot about jan larimer i've said most of times in this recording i'm very conflicted i like some parts of it i dislike some parts of it i do not blame anybody that's not a fan including you guys so that's part of it we've talked about steem were on steem we like steem very cool unique social media concepts i mean listen ten thousand transactions per second i've actually heard that number thrown around a lot by these white paper and a promise companies well see it's kind of a race we'll see who can actually achieve these types of rates at a certain time whoever does it certainly had a big advantage and even when they do if the project's open source other people are going to have access to how they got it done so that's what i find most fascinating is that you know we just recorded depicts recently and part of that conversation was maybe other people are going to beat them to what they're trying to do while i agree with that i think that that is a problem that's going to be pretty global in this space and not necessarily that's something just dedicated to them a couple of things grant touched on earlier about the get hub i am not familiar get hub but i do understand what it is and if they're extremely active that is certainly a good thing for the project.

Brent:

Early on, i touched on the venture capital money that's coming in very fifty to them.

Mike:

And when you have massive long term thinkers interested in your project, then you have a lot of people that are in scent of eyes to make sure that this goes well and those, well, long term.

Brent:

So i think that's a huge bonus and i also touched on the pre mind, you know, it's not as bad as it seems, so i get it grant anything to add.

Mike:

You know what?

Brent:

No, i think i think we we caught it all again.

Karim:

If everything works well and the network is secure, my biggest concern is going to be their incentive to continue working on the project and the scent of the possible centralization.

Brent:

But for us, for the rest of it, if it works like steem it, i mean it's a good i don't know that it was it could have been just done on the steem it platform, but i get why it was moved or the steem platform, maybe there's no spark contract since.

Karim:

I guess we're gonna have to wait a little bit for this test in it.

Brent:

I'm not the testing about the actual net toe launch.

Karim:

All right, guys, what about people who are listening?

Brent:

Maybe they're incentivized by the fact that it's, a good time to get in those people who are interested in would like to invest.

Karim:

Where can they buy yells?

Brent:

Well, yours is listening on bunch of exchanges, but us investors cannot participate in the i c e o anymore.

Karim:

I don't know if they could originally, okay, yeah, that's, right, i guess i forgot, in a way that there's still technically an i c e o so that makes sense.

Brent:

You could still get it, it's, publicly traded on finance and a lot of the big ones, so, okay, if you are interested, you can, you can get so makes sense, okay?

Karim:

And who are the major competitors to ceos in the space?

Brent:

You're talking about all your major platforms ethereum cardano neo icon those air the the rial competitors ceos and we'll see with its use cases how it ends up functioning i mean i think that the ceo model where you launch and then immediately get off the platform is not good for the overall ecosystem of the platform so if that continues to happen teo ethereum mostly only then i can see another platform coming in and taking care of it my bet would be on cardano but theo's may end up being a player i'm not willing to invest before they come out and actually have something working in that they can show me well high risk high reward i do agree with you there brent i don't think i would put my money in before seeing what product they actually launch.

Mike:

On the other hand, clearly you know people who are willing to take more risks there might benefit for much larger rewards okay all right guys so let's wrap it up with a little bit of some personal touch i want to hear your personal future outlook on the coins this is completely personal completely preferential throw fax out the window break you could talk about some may i taking over since that's your thing for future outlooks there's away on this one i know i was just strolling you know i can actually see if they succeed, i can actually see them coming up with a way to incentivize those that stayed on the ethereum project to come over to them.

Brent:

So if if it really is what dan lambert saying is better than a theory of and every way, then why wouldn't i?

Karim:

Golden, for instance, come onto their project, where they could possibly make their program better, as long as everything they've already put as faras code will still work here so they can end up as the theory, um, killer.

Mike:

And they could also just end up being nothing whatsoever in the end of dan lair omise career, where he takes the money raised.

Karim:

Get get the fuck out of there and it's, like, all right, i'm good.

Mike:

So my personal future outlook is going to go as follows behind hoskins san and and batalik i would say lam a pry has the third best resume in this space, you know, obviously satoshi is kind of an unknown and we don't know what else you know, we can credit that person with but he's clearly really good at what he does and and i respect the claims he's made i respect the fact that he's doing things his own way, i respect that in a leader of a project, you know, we've obviously touched many times that it's it's, a pro and con at the same time, i really see this being a major player for years to come.

Brent:

I don't really see a scenario where us isn't it really relevant big time player for at least, you know, the next few years and when i'm designing a portfolio that needs to be considered, in my opinion and like i don't see a scenario where this coin drops out of the top twenty by the year twenty twenty and how many project could really confidently say that about many things.

Mike:

Isn't one of them, because i don't know what i don't know if it's gonna work.

Brent:

If it's, just a re branding of the steem platform that has some great marketing behind it, it might work if it's a change of the steem platform to the point where it's more or less not recognisable.

Mike:

I don't know if it's gonna work, so so i don't think we can say that about this project, maybe it's, my personal future.

Brent:

Look, you asked me how i can.

Mike:

Brent, you are violating the rules.

Brent:

Personal future outlook, that's, that's three green cards for you.

Mike:

One more.

Brent:

You're getting a purple go on, mike, wait, why're, you giving green cards to people of all people, because i'm a citizen now, theo.

Mike:

Oh, that's.

Brent:

So, like this weird soccer reference of the rod colors and racism, that was also my beautiful.

Mike:

All right, so the other point i want to make is, yes, we don't know what this is capable of and it's very possible that the current market cap reflects a lot of unknown, and it could be built in that it may have a higher chance of success, that it really does.

Brent:

I won't admit that, but i also want toe remind people that he does have a solid track record of working projects, and he's given me no reason to believe that this isn't going to be one of his projects that are also successful.

Mike:

So call it what you will.

Brent:

I personally see this being solid for the next few years.

Mike:

All right, fair enough, and i think the only thing i will add, i saw a little interaction there where ah, charles tweeted something, and somebody asked him if you know how he felt about eos, and i really liked his answer, he said that theo's raised so much money from so many people that if they don't succeed, it would be bad for the spaces, a hole.

Brent:

So in reality, even if you don't have joo's, i think that it probably makes sense to cheer them on, because we want a lot of money raised in the space to be put to something productive, so that it helps validate what the space can do and something as big a zeos.

Mike:

Having some kind of catastrophe, i think, would be bad for whatever you hold in your portfolio.

Karim:

It wouldn't be good for it.

Brent:

In my opinion, i think it was a good point that is an excellent point and i totally agree with it and one of the things that i meant to mention that i glossed over he's been heavily involved in crypto currency since its infancy.

Karim:

So what does that say to me?

Brent:

Well he may have left a couple projects and he may have moved on to greener pastures that's not that uncommon in most busy this what is also likely says to me is that he probably has a tremendous amount of connections and if you sat him down and asked him he probably thinks his zeal esteem is greater than any team has worked with so part of having lofty goals we've talked about this work with cardano specifically you can have lofty goals because you have a big team you have a lot of trust you have a lot of faith in a lot of believers that believed in you and that want you to succeed i think his resume allows him to reach as far as he is trying to reach with this project and it's going to give him opportunities to succeed the others may not have enough brent before i sinus office is there anything else you'd like to add and if you do you will not get any penalties you have free reign right now not what that's it men what a wasted opportunity all right create what's your personal future look my person of your fan your your your listener right now, what is my personal future outlook on heels?

Karim:

I guess i'm waiting to see what happens when they released this block net.

Mike:

I'll be honest with you.

Brent:

Might bias was much more negative coming in, but i do think that, you know, looks steem a and b chairs have some credibility that they carry with them.

Mike:

So i guess his experience into this project is relevant.

Karim:

And like you said, a lot of institutional money seems to be going into this project, so i'm interested to see what they roll out.

Brent:

But i guess i do see a future where they could be out of the top twenty if they failed to deliver when they launch, even though they'll have the resources to keep chugging along.

Karim:

So i don't know.

Brent:

I don't know.

Karim:

This is ah, how we say in poker, he's complicated.

Brent:

They only say that in poker, right, guys e i don't know whatever said that.

Karim:

All right, right.

Brent:

Bonus points for that.

Karim:

Making fun of me, all right, i can usually tell it's time to wrap it up, guys, because we start getting a little bit too goofy.

Mike:

So i want to thank you for listening.

Brent:

We hope you enjoyed this way.

Mike:

One.

Brent:

Oh, one on e o sister reminder.

Mike:

We have one on ones on all sorts of coins.

Karim:

Go check out our history.

Brent:

We've covered most of the major projects and a couple of not so major projects.

Karim:

Police.

Mike:

Wherever you get us, itunes raid us that's the best way you can help the podcast.

Karim:

And lastly, if you want to join our discreet community, it is vibrant.

Mike:

It is active.

Karim:

Lots of good information there, whether you're into mining or i ceos or whatever.

Brent:

But thank you so much for tuning in.

Karim:

That was michael laki and brent philbin, which i think a lot of mikey wants to say something before we go.

Mike:

No, just make sure you register your tokens if you only us.

Karim:

Okay.

Mike:

And make sure of your own eo as you, reggie.

Karim:

I want that to be like the last part of the episode.

Brent:

The very closing thoughts we were are not.

Mike:

Financial advisors will cover that register.

Karim:

You're talking to me.

Mike:

Have them just don't sleep at the wheel that's.

Karim:

Right, so that's.

Brent:

Your call to action.

Karim:

If you own eos, go register your tokens right now.

Mike:

If you don't own eos, go on itunes, and give the crypto basic podcast a five star review that's, your call tact, ction.

Karim:

All right, i think we're gonna go ahead and wrap it up here.

Mike:

The crypto basic podcast, michael lucky, bren philbin, karim bar. Okay, thank you so much for listening. Yeah, members of the crypto basic team are not financial advisors.

Karim:

They're idiots, please, almost anything that they say this is for entertainment purposes only.

Mike:

All investments have inherent risk through your own research and never risk more than you can afford to lose and get your green cards

The members of the CryptoBasic podcast are not financial advisors, and this information is provided for entertainment purposes. Please do your own research, and don't listen to these idiots.

The CryptoBasic Podcast is owned and operated by Cipher Consulting Group LLC.