CryptoBasic Podcast

Your source for all Cryptocurrency information, made for the novice investor. 

Michael:

this may be a very elegant solution for doing a non regulated by seo i know it could be completely wrong on that but that

Michael:

seems like i need to take another way hello everybody and welcome to the crypto basic podcast thank you for tuning in and just as a reminder what you're listening to is a part of our wanna one siri's a collection of standalone episode where we explore coins concepts and projects from the ground up today we are discussing camo tow the cryptocurrency platform named after the only dragon you can't fight in a video game my name is corinne maru cane with me today to explain this project is my friend and co host Michael philbin how are you tae print

Brent:

i'm doing awesome today but i don't know for sure but i'm pretty sure you can fight a camo toe in a video game at some point like i want to like bet on it but there's a lot of video games and a lot of things you fight in one of those probably i'm

Michael:

pretty sure fighting promoter dragons is illegal is against the world preservation something unless you could name a video game in five seconds my statement's gonna stand five four

Brent:

all right let's start

Michael:

crypto Michael

Brent:

ah we are looking

Michael:

at comodo today there's going to be an interesting discussion i'm going into this project knowing very little almost nothing about this but one of things we like to discuss before we even dive into the project is what we're bias is going into the project where did we stand before we started our research so why don't you let the audience know whether or not you've ever owned kamata or own it at the current time and whether or not you had any assumptions or biases about this project before you started research

Brent:

so i do not and have not own come on ho i knew absolutely nothing about it that the only thing that i knew about tomato was it came up on one of our flagships i think when we were talking about those chinese ratings where they had virgin the top fifty percent and i was like i've never even heard of most so that was the only time that ever entered my brain and the members of the community were saying like you guys should check this out it's a good project so i would say it came in completely cold but the members of the community details it was good project for looking up so slight caused advice

Michael:

yeah i mean we've usually had a good experience when we have to research a project mostly because our audience is pushing us to do it that's usually a good sign light like that was the case with ontology and it was fantastic so all right that's exciting stuff i don't have personal bias here don't know anything about tomato having owned it but i'm very interested to learn about it so hopefully i'll be able to ask the questions that are on your mind as the audience brynn's going to be our resident expert oir which is a word i just made up so

Brent:

Michael

Michael:

what is the vision of comodo

Brent:

all right so okamoto vision is focused around freedom so there they want the user's toe have the freedom to it the word's all over the white paper so they want the users that have the freedom to choose which chain they'd like to use whether it's currency or launcher i seo so they want you to choose to launch an icy on ethereum or something else they also want you to be able to choose who you'd like to see your transactions when you do so they won't be able to choose privacy if you want to and then we'd have freedom from centralized exchanges so that's their core focus for everything going forward

Michael:

okay so i have a question already that i'm not sure i understand when you mean like the freedom to choose where your launch you're like is that not the case already i'm a little bit confused

Brent:

what i really should have said that i was talking about freedom of where the launcher i seo is ideally they want you to be able to launch i ceos even if your jurisdiction for instance maybe not wood would not be okay with it so they want you to be able to pick your chain and if you your jurisdiction doesn't like the idea that you could do it on a theory um with their privacy features in theory you could launch a nice ceo on the kamo no platform and not have to worry about regulations because of the way they do their

Michael:

ideas okay i guess that makes a little bit more sense so it's it's pretty targeted i see here from the outline like you said that the word freedom comes up a lot so it'll be interesting to see how that manifest as you explain the project a little further all right so i guess the next section is before we actually dive into how the project works why don't you give us the history of the project

Brent:

so interestingly enough they are a weird pseudo for a couple of points there not like they're not like the actual combination of people they fort off of see cash so they have that z k snarks privacy feature that a lot of the different points have like that we've talked about zen cash see classic brian those those kind of coins and but they're an evolution of the between dark chain so there was this shit for called bitcoin dark again it's just for now i don't know what it was like that but they decided to switch it over to shamoto so the way they did their ceo is that you could buy camo toy coins with big point or you could trade your bitcoin dark points in for comodo tokens and a forty eight to one ratio and the same developers were doing piquing that did bitcoin dark we're the ones who were working on kimoto and they said we're going to leave this quinn per day we're going destroy everything about it and it's going to be out there doing nothing so you will be able to find bitcoin dark on some fringe exchanges right now it's the code still exists out there but i tried to learn a little bit about it and the website that used to be there is down all the different communities are gone the last post in the sovereign it was fifteen days ago begging to have a transaction confirm he says i guess there's no minors so that coin is essentially gone and it became evolved into comodo so they finally took the last bit of bitcoin dark on january fifteenth two thousand eighteen there i seo ended in november of two thousand seventeen and they already have a working product i mean there there and its course and see cash was originally a bitcoin for big work off the same based that bitcoin does but they have a really interesting way of securing your network with we'll get into it a little bit so that is the brief history

Michael:

okay and i just want to make sure that i didn't miss understand the chain of events here so basically bitcoin dark was chained off of z cash and then bitcoin dark was stopped on development they learned some things they wanted to basically kind of start from scratch the development team migrated over and created a brand new chain using similar code and that is comodo is that correct

Brent:

they're going dark was a i believe a regular big wing for a bit the kamo toe is the z cash for so big queen dark i don't think you see case notes they must have used some other form pricey though that people decided wasn't good enough

Michael:

gatica okay so bitcoin dark was a bitcoin fork thes guys stopped working on big coin dark and instead migrated over to a new project which they forked off of z cash

Brent:

yes okay

Michael:

all right

Brent:

so i guess

Michael:

before we dive in its time for our rapid fire section

Brent:

okay

Michael:

our rapid fire section is a quick series of yes or no questions where we get a brief will review of what this coin is about and how it works

Brent:

so our

Michael:

first question Michael is going to be is this a coin a token or a platform

Brent:

it is a platform it is called the temple of level

Michael:

i'm going to want to know more about that because my understanding about z cash is that it is a coin right

Brent:

yeah there's some interesting things going on here

Michael:

okay so i'm gonna want to know more about that Michael is this project decentralized

Brent:

so originally i had this has no and because there was one part which i'll get into it a little bit that i thought was a point of centralization i posted a subreddit to just ask to confirm like a is right on this the first couple of people have responded kind of confirmed what i was thinking then the original writer of the white paper came in and wrote me a very long response explained it and also said yeah i need to include this in the white paper i haven't gotten around to that and i'll put a link in the show notes to that but basically put my fears to rest so i would say that this product is in fact decentralised

Michael:

and you'll get into what he actually said when we get into the

Brent:

features destructiveness

Michael:

all right so if you are the audience and you want to know what happened make sure you stay tuned it alright so question number three Michael is comodo easy to move around

Brent:

i don't know so i haven't ever moved it around and it seems like their new enough with new wallets that the answer's probably no it's a little bit difficult so i asked about the user experience on what on their decentralized exchange which is a part of this that will get into and apparently the user experience is in great so i would say it's probably a no but that they're improving very very quickly so it will be a yes shortly

Michael:

makes sense can it be

Brent:

mined or

Michael:

state

Brent:

yes both kinds

Michael:

explain

Brent:

that it's going to be o

Michael:

good that's

Brent:

very unique so there are minor so you can use prove work too mind this coin however it the main source of kind of suits taking income would be if you have ten comodo points at least you five percent interest per year you have to move them around once a month in consenting to yourself in that counts is moving them around but they give you the five percent per year the proof of work part is a very involved thing and we've discussed it before but the white paper was written in such a way that i really understand this so we're gonna we're gonna get a lot of meat in this episode oh i

Michael:

love episodes with a lot of me so

Brent:

you used me

Michael:

oh

Brent:

i like

Michael:

substance my friend i like substance i also loved the fact that my co host star twelve year olds but yeah it's another matter

Brent:

all right

Michael:

is their main et life

Brent:

yes there there live there functioning they had ice

Michael:

ceos and just to clarify before the audience anybody who might not be familiar with that term so basically what we're asking here is are they their own blockchain do they have their own independent chain and the answer here is yes right Michael

Brent:

this as we're covering points that are not in the top say thirty anymore we're noticing a lot more of them are just toking waiting for their main met so we added this to the rapid fire because we thought it was important to

Michael:

them okay excellent and then lastly our most objective scientific analysis question this takes ah lot of research so please appreciate the work that goes into this Michael is a sound cool

Brent:

i'm gonna go with no so their branding lies lie very on point and it's you know like their call their point logo looks cool and kind of looks like a dragon and they got a lot of cool stuff going on but camo toe is three full syllable is to say and it's like i don't know i just can't see myself being like your rose seven tsukamoto do ok you know did something simcoe maybe like i don't know maybe we end up giving it a nickname

Michael:

but keamey like cousin

Brent:

roll off the tongue doesn't roll off the tongue completely i like a lot about the project the name that they chose and karim master right foreman on the upside widely picked this name i said i'm trying to find it i couldn't find it so maybe there's something really cool behind why they picked that name but i don't know it just doesn't sound

Michael:

also okay so a couple of things here um i'm going to china number one i do think it sounds cool i like the name comotto because first of all it's related to a dragon which is cool number two the letter k is fantastic it's just things that start with the case ankle i don't know

Brent:

karate

Michael:

kangaroo comodo those air off really cool words so i do like a moto

Brent:

three days of corinne there

Michael:

hey there you go yeah obviously i'm biased here but i like the sound of the letter k but okay as we all know Michael doesn't really know what's cool or what's not so we just do that to give a little fun and i think that's going to wrap it up for the rapid fire brand why don't we dive into the features and structure i know i'm gonna have a lot of questions here i want to know how z cash fork is a platform i want to know how something is mind state gs no maybe all

Brent:

of the above

Michael:

so you're gonna have a lot of explaining to do here buddy that's you could start wherever you want but you need to start breaking this project down for us

Brent:

i got a lot of explaining to do okay so the first thing i'm going to mention is i talked about that five percent interest i'm just going to go and talk about that real quick it has to be done in their wallet haven't least ten and you have to send them to yourself to reset them every thirty days so you have to move them around i think that helps her privacy in some way i'm not really sure but the interest will pay for about twelve to fourteen years so once that's done you're not getting any passive income from that anymore so they're going to allow anyone to make their own chain and attached to the comodo chain and so if they're targeting entrepreneurs who want to go into the blockchain space but don't necessarily really know how to get done or won't have the half power necessary to get things going so i want to mention that and we're going to put a pin in it i just meant so think about kimoto there's kimoto and then there's a bunch of little chains below kimono that all attached to it moto now going to explain how that happens by explaining how kimoto attach is the big point now we have talked about a delayed perfect work before what was the other coin that we've talked about

Michael:

that i think it was the last dose and i believe they called emerged mining is that the same concept here

Brent:

oh well i think similar i was yeah i remembered us talking about something like this for sake listen the they last a simpson this may be a little bit of rehashing information but i want to quickly explain how this works so the kimoto platform knows that it is if you're a small network and you're not getting a lot of miners you're vulnerable to a fifty one percent attack we've we've seen this in you know crappy coins that have that have bad attack vectors we've seen it in good coins that just aren't getting enough minors to secure their network

Michael:

brain could you quickly explain what a fifty one percent attack is

Brent:

so the fifty one percent attack is if you could get fifty one percent of the half power of a coin the that is the people working on that roof or point you can in theory go ahead and start putting in false transactions or oran refund transactions to yourself so that it looks like he didn't spend the money and the rest of the network kind of has to accept this because as you start winning more four blocks your blocks look like they're the correct ones so the rest of the network just goes off of that because you have the longest report and eventually those become set in stone and your hack there and then is part of the block so if you want to know more about how kind of the bloc team works checkout between one on one we try to explain it pretty simply it's not an easy thing to explain simply so so just know that every little coin is somewhat vulnerable to a fifty one percent attack if they're not big point with bitcoin is secured by massive massive amounts of computing they are a little bit vulnerable so what had come over and do to solve this problem they wanted to launch their network but they didn't want to be vulnerable they like their idea so what they did was they decided to use bitcoin task power and the way they do this is they have what are called no one read notes there's going to be sixty for notary notes and these things are gonna be the notes that basically run the entire network so it is what i said they were decentralized there decentralized ina's faras thes sixty for nodes control control the main important part which is they back up the chain on the bitcoin network so what they do is they take all of the comodo blockchain and put it in one of the hash is on the bitcoin network so if you ever have a question as the weather a transaction is legitimate or not you can go back to the big point chain and see the latest copy of the network there so it's like keeping a copy of something iron computer but they're keeping it a copy of everybody's computer in all bitcoin because you can add information to a transaction hash like satoshi did on his original genesis block where is our his look original transaction where he i was chancellor no something s something do the chance or bailing out banks or

Michael:

whatever yeah yeah chancellor on the brink of new banking

Brent:

that s o s o so you can add text any transaction so they just put it all on and the sixty four notary nodes are responsible for putting that on to the big point network so there are also miners who are mining inside of the comodo platform but the known reno's the sixty four notary notes are also mining and also copying the network onto the big point network so they are three times more likely to get a reward than a miner is so very few miners are actually mining the ca motor network enough to keep it working and running but the fifty one percent attack would have to come on the bitcoin chain because these sixty for notary notes are the ones who have the incentive to do the right thing so the sixty four notary nodes are making i think eighteen hundred comodo per month and that is it's at about three bucks right now so they are voted in to notary knows that here's the part where i wasn't this wasn't in the white paper so the guy who wrote the white paper talk to me on reddit and explain this to me so i thought that there was a problem here i thought all i found was that there was an election for thirty of these so i thought the other thirty four were just the governor's or something like that so it turns out there is a serious of elections for thirty two all of these twice per year so if you are no re noting you are not doing what you say you're going to do for instance you say you're going to give back something to the community or you say i'm going to be developing this project and giving it to the developers so they can add it you could be voted out and there are people that need to be voted out also you control fifty sixty four notary notes control fifty one percent of the kamo toe half hour they are the fifty one percent attack themselves so that's why nobody else could do it so if they all decide to collude and do something funny then you might have something going on there but they also can decide if the comodo code which is going to be in everything that we're talking about today everything is run off of the comodo code they khun decide to switch that out so i thought the developers get update the code whenever they wanted to and then nobody could really stopped them but that's not the case so even though the belt for some of these sixty four they have the half power so they wanted to get rid of that code they have that off

Michael:

but just to clarify Michael are you saying that it's still only half of the notes of the notary notes that are put up for election

Brent:

every six months half of them are put up for election so no more lulu and then thirty two

Michael:

it's more like congress where some people are defending their seat while the other ones have a longer term basically

Brent:

yes so and then another

Michael:

question i have for you it's not super relevant to commit a boat i feel like i'm starting to see this type of governance system more more what was the coin i remember calling that you we're invested in and i feel like they were the first ones that came up with this like system of voting and delegates and people were keeping an eye on and what was that that coin that had the competitions

Brent:

are we haven't done we have done what no one on our kit but i don't think they were the first but they were just one of the ones that were focusing on interoperability and they had a council more or less of people that you had to pay to vote for but those vote those people that you voted for all had proposals to get back to the community

Michael:

okay so yeah that's what

Brent:

you received rewards for voting for certain people so it's kind of interesting yes so this is democratic they had a forty percent participation in their last election so what happens is for every comodo point that you have you get one vote point in the election period and then you get to choose who to give your vote points too and you can break them up into how everyone get nine point nine percent of one person and point on one to another and then at the end whoever as most let's gets to go sobering scent is a pretty big hope

Michael:

especially so real quick i just to not to somewhat but just to make sure that we are drawing the important points out of the section number one this concept of delayed proof of work essentially the technicals aside what comodo has managed to do is find a way to leverage the power that's going into securing bitcoin and using that to secure the network that way they can guarantee that they're safer even if they don't have the adoption of something like bitcoin basically

Brent:

right now there's a massive downside of time i've gotten too but that is the the essential thing that they're doing is yes they're leveraging the bitcoin network to secure their own

Michael:

interesting so is this a good time to go into the downside is that something you wanna discuss later

Brent:

the downside is this cost them approximately one hundred eighty bitcoin burn year in transaction fees so what s a well they're putting transactions on the big win

Michael:

over so when

Brent:

they send these transactions that contained their entire blockchain they are just broadcasting to the bitcoin network there we go we're sending this transaction here is the stuff that we're including in the transaction so they have to pay to get those transactions done and they're doing them constantly so that the one hundred eighty bitcoin transaction the approximation i think was was post big transaction fee times when they calculated that or pre i think in fact in how bad those transactions he's got for a little bit which is right when they're i seo kind of finished so i they raised about two million dollars worth of bitcoin at the time of their ceo so they're using that pay for the fees and they're also probably converting the thieves that they get into more bitcoin david network but i'm a little worried that eventually that's going to run out you know

Michael:

yeah what is their block generation time but because that sounds pretty expensive like i was just trying to do some pretty rudimentary math i mean i'm not saying that this some point but i basically did you know three hundred sixty five days times you know twenty four hours and i divided one hundred eighty bitcoin and it comes out toe point zero two big coin

Brent:

per hour

Michael:

that's like one hundred eighty four dollars an hour in transactions that is that's quite a bit now here's another way to think about it though if you consider that just money that you're renting to secure the network i mean instead of having to pay miners you're essentially paying the bitcoin miners i don't know if i could see both sides of it does sound pricey but you're getting a lot of return right you're getting all the bighorn hash power and return

Brent:

right yeah is very difficult to attack the network so i don't i don't know what the block times were for kimoto but the nodes update at a random interval eso there each note is broadcasting to the bitcoin network when there's there was there was a specific block that they're supposed to do that i just don't remember wass but they do they broadcast on random and standard intervals and those air where they incur the fees so they might be incurring sixty forty's at once the broadcast of the network

Michael:

okay that makes sense as a quick aside before you continue i know i have said this in previous episodes but the deeper we dive into the cryptocurrency world and the more that we explore different projects trying to do different things i am always amazed by how much activity revolves around and is dependent on big one i feel like people severely underestimate how many things are attached to it connected to it built on it and from side change to hash power to merch mining to delayed before i mean like it really is amazing so when people look at bighorn and they just think oh that's just a bunch of people deciding that this is what it's worth for no reason it's really not man there's so much attached to this network it's amazing

Brent:

yeah i will say they've been switching hours they have the ability it not required to be on the point they can store this blocked a nash in any network that allows you to put information in with the transaction so they could do it on a theory and they do it on a big win cash whatever they do it wherever it needs to be done so they in the white paper they say for whatever reason they point ever becomes not the most secure network and is not being hashed by the most miners will switch to notice something else and the sixty four notary nodes were the ones who get to make that choice so they can they can just start pointing themselves somewhere else though that is the that is the delayed proof of work and that's how that works now what i said when i said before you can make your own ice sio on this platform mom and i want to put a pin in that the way your own isil work is exactly the same relationship that promoter has the big point you will create your own chain you will decide how many coins are giving out will decide what it's called you'll decide all that stuff but you will be secured by the kamo tow chain which is then secured by the big point chain so you will be doing the same notary process and backing up your block chain on the kimono platform that moto is doing on the big

Michael:

okay so that's actually pretty interesting and i would consider this as e not as a counter argument but i feel like it makes the cost of securing the network on bitcoin less of a burden because then from what you're describing it sounds like all of the different block chains that are branching out so basically comodo is a branch coming out of bitcoin and it has all these other branches but if there's ice ceos on those branches that are feeding money into comodo then that's going to make up some of the money that comodo has to feed into the bitcoin boxing for security

Brent:

right it costs three hundred thirty three kimoto to start your own point on their chain and you also have to give them three hundred thirty three of your point so the number three thirty three and the number seven seven seven come up a lot i did not find the significance of sure there is

Michael:

i don't know how significant it is but i mean it's a perfect third obviously right two thirds and a third of a thousand

Brent:

well but there's no decibels so is not really right right so okay but

Michael:

Michael i don't know if you have the answer to this i understand that you have to give a certain amount of your coin and pay a certain amount of comodo but to me that's short term stuff right my question is if i build a nice ceo on the comotto chain and i'm using comodo to secure my chain ah my pain transaction fees to camo toe for every single block in the same way that kimoto is paying them to the big corn chain because that's the only way to make it sustainable

Brent:

yes you are so okay we can also lower the security of your network if i understand right you don't have to do all that but it's default that way so the starting your own ceo on the commodity in there trying to make it like pointless like right now if i want to be one big chairs make my own point i could do that super usually they're trying to make it the same way they have like basically this program you canelo but we're like okay i want to make karim coin okay there's gonna be a hundred of them all right the and you go through and you can do it so they're trying to make it very very very easy for you to do for you to do this and then of course they they do offer partnerships where you can gay something developed a little bit better so you're asking me about platforms and smart how tracks they are not yet available but they will be so this platform is developing smart contracts and that can be used on their big point style chain and kind of in theory on between themselves so i'm getting the next thing i'm gonna do that is the core of the comodo platform is the atomic swap protocols so we've talked about tomic spots before atomic swaps are basically the way you can make you khun trade in between takes so if green has big point and wants don't and i have doetsch and one bitcoin we could make that happen through atomic swap what we haven't done is it kind of explain how an atomic swap works now it may work differently on the other platforms that talk about atomic swamps but this white paper was ridiculously long but the first like one third of it was telling you how big coin works so that was fine get that and the rest of it was explaining in layman's terms how this stuff works so they were able to explain without any coding without any math and all the stuff that was that you know might make you want a false lead how an atomic swap works so i wanted to go into this process because the bartered decks which is their decentralized exchange it's called the barter next is going to be the court how they're smart contracts were it's going to be the court to how they actually achieve privacy for other chains like you can wash your bitcoin with the command o j and make it make it non fun right this is very very interesting so here's an atomic swap works kareem you're trying getting doetsch you've got your you got your big point you're like you know what don't just good investment you originally gonna invest in virg but then you

Michael:

decided

Brent:

maybe though just a little bit better little little you know

Michael:

i was gonna i was gonna get in big connect but unfortunately it's not in the exchange i use anymore and then i found this other coin

Brent:

and i was like oh

Michael:

much wow i

Brent:

want yeah barry really we should do a no deficits of it so i've got no twine because i am a very altruistic purpose carson and people have donated dodge to meet and i've decided i want turns out of it in the big one so you broadcast to the network that you want dough twelve and i'm like all right i see that i like the rate i'm in so i say i'm going to take your trade so here's how here's how it goes i say i'm gonna take your trade you now have to send the transaction feat of the network the transaction fee is one one hundred seventy seventh of the arms i one seven hundred seventy seven of the total amount so if you were seven saying seven hundred seventy seven does you have to put up one as the transaction fee so that goes to the barber necks and is sent there that could never be recovered you paying your transaction fee up front so since i'm the one that's going to be taking it i need to put up one hundred twelve first point five percent of the transaction so i need to put up the full transaction plus twelve point five percent that goes to the barter dex as a

Michael:

deposit i'm sure you're going to explain why you're having to put up more than one hundred percent of the trade right

Brent:

yes so that goes to the barter dex as a deposit and it doesn't go to you so now you have received confirmation that the deposit is on the bar next you then send me one hundred percent of the big point that i'm trying teo get from you for the dose so you send one hundred percent of that big coin to me it goes into a wallet or i can't get spend it it goes into a wall that i have the private keys for but it cannot be spent it then i send you one hundred percent of the notes that you want so keep in mind now i've now sent one hundred twelve point five and one hundred percent so i have to have more than double the amount of does i wanted to send you if i'm going to accept a trade so thank you one hundred percent of the dutch into the same type of wallet so now we both have wallets that we have private keys too but we can't spend it until the network tells us it's okay to spend it we both got our one hundred percent of the coins that we want you sent your transaction fee and i've got my deposit sitting there now we both have to send our coins from our temporary wallet i guess to ourselves once we've sent the coins to ourselves and now it's been confirmed that we have him now my deposit on the barter dex is released back to me

Michael:

time out i thought you said that we couldn't move those funds

Brent:

we once they're both there then that is broadcasting network and you're allowed to you

Michael:

it's down like

Brent:

so once they've both confirmed in there what is they think it was called the spend more orders of or not i don't know what i was there there was there was a name for the wallets and once it's confirmed that they're both there now we can send it to ourselves in total it's actually seven transactions that need to take place so it's very tough to get the atomic swapped up now the back it we don't have to really worry about all of this on the user experience i'd eventually but right now the way this dex is working you have to know about this so there's trust their right like i have to trust that you send the money and you have your size and the money but it has been game theory it out so that there's not a problem so here's what can happen you can put up your you broadcasting that one thing you want to get cem cem doetsch and i can say all right i'll take that and now you send your transaction fee which is the first thing that initiates all this you send your transactions in the network well now that that's there you can't get back so if i never send my deposit to the bard index in the first place

Michael:

i get burnt

Brent:

then you lose your transaction fee and get nothing but there's also a reputation system built into this so every time that i do that every time i take a trade and don't actually send my money for trade i get ding against my reputation system and eventually i won't be able to trade so it's a very small fee one seven seventy seven is a very very tiny feet so there are going to be times when that is going this pier now if i put my deposit out and then i don't know and then i get yours and i don't send mine you get my deposit plus that's what point five percent so you get an extra twelve point five percent on the trade just because i was lazy and didn't finish my end of the bargain so you're protected on that side if at any point in any of these transactions the party fails teo do what they're supposed to do they get a ding in their reputation so if you for instance decided that you were not going tio send your doetsch burt your bitcoin from or you don't cite from your new wallet to yourself you would you would get digging your reputation and also that would go back so you if you you didn't complete your transaction there's a way that you could send and not receive if you didn't take your money out of that wallet that it goes do that like temporary wallet and sent it to yourself it goes back to the original person so you do have to be on top of it obviously the this stuff is built into the software so it's not really something the end user access to worry about but somebody who's a coterie who's developing the software has to realize that all this needs to happen to make this work thie other problem there is what that's so so the first problem is this is seven transactions from one which is fairly complicated and then some of these air using the transactions of the actual network so you have to

Michael:

pay fees and those networks

Brent:

right he's on big pointed to send big one you have to pay duties on does send does you also pay a fee on this network to make it happen so that's ah one of the downsides of something like either dealt eventually there's going to be enough liquidity hopefully that this goes down down down because they're gonna be people with large amounts of to do this but the other issue is there there's something holding utx up which is inherent to every point and that is the same is like a dollar bill so all the big points air vent or whatever point eventually broken down into whole amounts so like if i have one big one in my wallet i might have utx o's of all kinds of different amounts that add up to big wayne going big point if i have one hundred dollars in my my real wallet i might have four twenties the ten to five so the way a lot of these transactions work on the networks is you broadcast them and you say i want to send point two big point but you have a uc exit point three big point you send it you actually send that out and you get re funded in one that's all one big point so there it's a little bit unique and i think it's a lot smaller than that but the way their code works if you don't have the exact amount of one of these parts of the transaction in and ut excel in your wallet you can't do it so there they have the infrastructure there but it's still got some limitations where they're gonna be amounts that you may not be able to send so

Michael:

our brand so i just want to get a little bit of a rapper because this is it's a really interesting section and and i really do appreciate what they're trying to do here but i just wanna be clear number one is one of the two parties the way that this is designed in order to prevent cheating means that one of the two parties is gonna have to have more than twice the amount that they want to trade right in this examples you needed to have two hundred twelve percent of dodge that you were going to trade that's number one and then i'm pretty sure that there's no way you could have stumbled on this so i'm just kind of spitballing here but i wonder how much complication there is when we're talking about lodgings that have different block intervals and different confirmation periods you know because i like so much here it's like ok well you need to receive it in this wallet and then you need to send it to yourself and all the stuff but what happens when you're dealing with the block chain that you are trying to translate late into is going to be confirmed in three minutes you know maybe whatever you have neo or some a ripple or something that's quick and then on the other side we're dealing with a coin that's going to take seven blocks and it's ten minute blocks you know it could be an hour so i wonder how it deals with all that i mean i just want people to realize that there are probably going to be clinks here but that this is an extremely complex thing to try to pull

Brent:

off yeah it is very is very difficult to get interchange swap like that in a decentralized away because these chains aren't made to communicate with each other so and some are but the the so this is it's very tough but yeah they're going to be some growing pains or something like this now they i have a smart contracts that are coming in they have other ways to make this better but right now this is this is what they're worth so it could be done if you want to get this done without a centralized exchange looking over your shoulder and doing it can that that is your freedom to choose that you're free now here is an interesting use case as we go forward i talked about privacy they used the z case knox that betsy cashews which is the zero knowledge proof that way we don't understand one hundred percent how it works but we know that kareem is used the ball analogy before which is if i'm color blind in these holding a balls there and i'm building up balls he can tell me which one is you can tell me that the ball is blue and then if i switch hands you can tell me this balls blue even though i can't see which ball of blue he's done it all so that is the theoretical the idea behind your knowledge but we also need to trust that the original z cash ceremony was good so the way the zero zero knowledge groups work is with the z cash ceremony they created these these keys and then destroy them publicly but you have to hope that nobody kept the copy and those and that maybe they could unscramble that later so the communities do trust that but just important that with any of the privacy coins there arounds decay starts you have to realize that that initial transaction you have to trust that that was done correctly the

Michael:

only thing i'll add their brightness even though i agree with you i just want to make it clear that the reason people trust that is because it's been thoroughly vetted you know from a programming and mathematical standpoint is not blind trust

Brent:

ryan ever everybody says it's like all the smartest people world they are not all like in a conspiracy teo say it's fine when it wasn't so i try i do personally trust it but there is another amount of trust there with any of the of this the coins that are on z k stark's privacy protocol so you have that ability with with the camo tickle and in the bargain decks and they use what is called their jump lor technology which is similar to i guess the ring seti's from a narrow but but what they do is they have when you send a private transaction you'll be familiar with the tea and the z transactions from the other coins that we've done like this but there are transparent addresses and there are the zero proof addresses so the tea in the sea you khun send to ese address which then sends it to another one which then as a fifty percent chance of setting into another one and another chance of sending it to another one it bounces around all these private addresses until it finally pops out at its final location so if you want to initiate this exact kind of transaction through the barter decks for say bitcoin with a privacy us private said the privates and option with their jumble er when it comes out the other end that bitcoin is more or less wash because you don't know who you bought it from because it went through this we went through these fake addresses and around and instill dance so you could increase the privacy of a coin that is transparent in this way now i don't know if they forensics could get back in fix all that we thought between was private once upon a time and is not so just uninterested interesting little extra thing that the barn next might help you get accomplished

Michael:

so i'm going to do ah random little it's going to seem like a plug but it's not it just made me think about it working right now on one of the fireside chat episodes and it's looking at the history of cryptography and my guess is that this is going to be kind of an arms race because that's what i'm discovering without episode it's like it probably will be private and then somebody will come along that i'll find a way toe break that down and then somebody will come along to make that more private again it's it's kind of like a back and forth you know between the people trying to break it down and the people trying to office kate

Brent:

it cool yes oh great look for cruz fireside chat should be out sometime

Michael:

this around june

Brent:

of two thousand nineteen

Michael:

no it will be at this month

Brent:

well this is this is a very bold claim that we have here on the crypto basic like it's karim has just said that

Michael:

his fireside

Brent:

chat will be out in june now you know we've been hearing about this fireside chat since the original the fans love the fireside chat i mean every day in our discord somebody asks where's the next korean virus i jack the bike by

Michael:

today he means a couple of times once upon a time but you know i do i do regret saying that it was going to come out this month even though it probably will come out this month but let's just let's move on

Brent:

so expected this month everybody this month we're just putting that out there on the black danger right

Michael:

now put it on the blockchain

Brent:

to make then we also put on the board know because i bet you'll just do it despite me but i'll bet my godmother i won't tell you which side i'll take but i'll bet Brent and whether you have it out in this mother night

Michael:

like you ever bet in my favor

Brent:

anyway

Michael:

i bring so more or less does that cover the structure of the coin because i'm thinking about moving on here to the pros in concert you could just break down your ideas into positives and negatives

Brent:

yeah eso there was clearly a lot to cover there that was that there was a lot of meat like i said and that i think we did a good job we can we could summarize that as we go through the pros and cons but try and take a good look at this and i will hopefully have some good questions for first see a three three three

Michael:

yeah i'll tell you what man this was an interesting features and structure section for me because not just your explanation of atomic swaps which showed how complex it is but also how you can actually pull something like that off it also showed the amount of game theory that has to go into something like that to make sure that the game the system doesn't get gamed but also i really enjoyed visualising the connection to the bitcoin blockchain and then the different connections to the comodo blockchain as block change basically just keep branching out and funneling their security through bitcoin it's really really interesting stuff but let's go ahead and go into the pros and cons so that we can parse out these ideas into concrete assessments of the project

Brent:

so i'll start with the yes the pros that guy there wipe it i was not happy about their eighty eight page white paper i was karim was laughing at me he's like i had to do ontology there were three white papers so shut up you're going to do this

Michael:

and i even

Brent:

tried to pawn it back off on them i was like i was like what you

Michael:

assume his brand saw that the boy paper was long he's like oh it just seems like something

Brent:

that you would want to do

Michael:

yeah nobody you could read along my people

Brent:

so so that was there was a little bit daunting but when i finally started to read it i was like oh so so again a lot of it was explaining bitcoin in a very good way i mean we have we posted video that we attached or big one wanna one up so that explained it in the best way that karim or i ever found but this is this paper was a very good job at explaining it to so if you would prefer to read that watch that would be a good speed good way people to check out the everything was in very layman terms like they explained a b c d and e walked you through the entire process that you understood how you got from point a to point b and i really like that about the white people because a lot of times the white papers are too far to one extreme or the other they write like a ten page white paper where they talk about changing the world and have no idea they don't give you any information with how they're gonna do it or they write a thirty page white paper that's just got literal mathematical expressions that i can't possibly begin to vala and this is the happy medium where they tell you everything you need to know about this coin how it operates how it works but do not bog you down with math there is a second paper that you could go into on the get hub that will show you all the math for this so it was really cool big shout out to user siddhartha comotto that was the name of the well used name of the person who wrote the

Michael:

light saber the name of the person that wrote the white paper is siddhartha comodo

Brent:

well that's his right user name i don't know

Michael:

i love that reddit user name side recommendation if you've never read siddhartha is one of the best books ever written going

Brent:

so e needed a very job vice from assuming he i could be wrong but i've said he had lunch time so that could be she was very well run right waiting it looks like it is possible to have an i c e o without the know your customer requirements that i don't know i'm not a lawyer i don't know what that would do for you as an individual or has it on organization i probably wouldn't recommend it but it looks like based on the privacy and based on the way they have things set up for their di ceos you could do this so it's kind of cool way didn't get into their di ceos i'm gonna put them as a a za pro i can't believe i skipped over this part there was valley road is one line so i get it but the decentralized ceos must generate all their coins on their genesis block so everything gets generated and then very very quickly they will have smart contracts built in too the platforms to send them out to the people who pay for them and orlock some of those coins up so the developers don't just get all the money if they if the developers have point set aside for himself so it'll be nice to to see how these decentralized ideas work get around the maybe centralized points of attack they get around that lake whales taking all the points of pumping and dumping everything is kind of done on the committal watching so it's pretty cool that's another problem of the d i ceos you know we've we've we've heard about ethereum changing their icy oh model tohave the decentralized autonomous i seo and that'll be interesting but for now this is the closest thing teo too that we've seen so i very much like it i like the optional privacy and like like we set on all these coins are like when they have the ability to be private i still haven't found that coin where its default private where you can have the option to be out there that would be one that would be a coin that is near near to my heart but i do think privacy is a fundamental right and i appreciate any points that like to get it so to do these dice ceos they're super easy it looks like it is really just point click now haven't tried one but the community know seem to say it is very ins on dh finally the comodo platform claims he can do ten thousand transactions for second again i don't know that that's true but it will be required to do stuff like that if it's doing a decentralized shake

Michael:

for what it's worth right off the bat there's one main reason why i believe them on this number and it's basically the way you described the consensus is being reached by sixty four notes so it's a general rule even though they have to be elected and all that and i'm not saying that it's not safe for someone decentralized or whatever but usually the platforms that have ah hard time trying to reach a high transaction per second count are going to be platforms like big cornering theory um which are truly massively decentralized and ah platforms or projects that are using chosen notes even like neos delegated byzantine fault tolerance there just there's only so many notes so it's the transactions per seconds not really that much of an issue

Brent:

yeah so i will say i will point out that i think sixty four four separate nodes is is more decentralized in the bitcoin ethereum right now

Michael:

why more decentralized and pickaninny kiri um

Brent:

well yeah once you bring the mining pulls into it the bangles there's only a few mining pulls that control each of

Michael:

those okay so the

Brent:

main reason that was

Michael:

the main reason i would disagree with you is number one unless you found something specific that says ah that the notes won't be able to be owned by similar entities or that they won't be able to collaborate there's no proof of that and number

Brent:

two you voted in

Michael:

yeah you get voted in but that doesn't mean you can't collaborate i could have a note and you could have a note we can collaborate

Brent:

oh you mean like like like there would be like the republican though it's a democrat a liver disease do you know what i think that will happen

Michael:

all you need is an agreement of cooperation that's number one and number two don't forget that even though there is i agree with you granted there's a ton of centralization around bitcoin and ethereum anybody can jump in any time and become a note and even that possibility doesn't exist here so i'm not saying that they're necessarily more centralized but i would push back on saying that they're more decentralized and big on any theory and i don't think that that's a fair assessment

Brent:

it's not on ly those sixty for that that get the rewards and my chain they the sixty four could achieve fifty one percent consensus themselves but there are minors on the motorbike from also that may have gotten lost in translation over the course of this

Michael:

but i didn't

Brent:

and so it's not just

Michael:

sixty four notes doing everything

Brent:

the sixty four notes have a much higher chance of getting the block reward but you tend be a minor for the kimoto platform and not be one of the notes

Michael:

gatch is so this network might be in a situation where we have sixty four notes that controlled fifty four percent of the hashed our plus two thousand random notes

Brent:

right okay

Michael:

that that does make it more decentralized

Brent:

s o you know i think that about sums up the pros were this is but this appointment has a lot of a lot of very depressed so primary khan is we're still looking at a very ambitious project they want again like a lot of these they want to unite block chains they wantto have a decentralized exchange atomic swaps all this is very difficult to achieve unless you're mass adopted so you know in the end if nobody is using the barter decks a lot of this stuff falls apart so hopefully they are if they catch on i think this will be a pretty cool points so they have a tough road ahead of them for the just for how over reaching there they're trying to be here that's the teo keep up their network has got to be a lot of them they've gotta be paying developers they've got to be hanging out with no words and all this stuff so under navy big pointy year is like that's a lot especially a big coin appreciate especially if john mcafee doesn't have to cut his dick off like think about how i

Michael:

think about how much

Brent:

bitcoin that it how much money that is i don't know if they have like a war chest somewhere in a bitcoin wallet where you can see how much bitcoin they currently have because if they have to purchase it at market value in order to use it that's going to be another kind of draw back here but at the same time you know maybe lightning network is increasing the ability of these transactions to be lower and maybe that hundred eighty big twenty year goes down

Michael:

i have a couple of thoughts when it comes to this number the first thing is that i feel like it's a number that's out of context and i don't know if we can get the right context because one hundred eighty bitcoin sounds like a ton no question that no questions asked but we don't really have a way to quantify what that represents from a security standpoint like one hundred eighty bitcoin as opposed to how much would it cost to get that level of security as far as how much it would have to row reward all the miners in order to be profitable if i have that equal and that's

Brent:

less than one hack everytime virg get sacked it's way more than a hundred a big plane

Michael:

and that's a great

Brent:

poet any of these other networks they get hit with these tax lose a lot more than that's right so

Michael:

so right off the bat that's the first studies i agree with you that that seems like a very large number but i also think that it's a number that we have out of context so it could be astronomically overpriced or it could be probably a decent deal who knows and then i guess the other thing is you mentioned that they reserved the ability to migrate so maybe if bitcoin becomes unsustainable from a price standpoint for them they don't necessarily need the most secure blocking on the planet like they could have a pretty secure blockchain that's affordable right like i don't know

Brent:

e yes if there's no fast car there or or whatever the case is so yeah they could they could direct

Michael:

there backups

Brent:

teo whatever jane they want so yeah if it becomes unstable they could do that i got set interest so i'm hoping it's sustainable that is it's a really cool way to go around the problem now we've talked about different what seem like simple solutions so when we talked about nana we talked about how each person has their own little individual blockchain and we're like wow that's kind of a really simple solution to this problem that that they came up with it was elliott this is the same thing they they have the solution with air like we just back it up on one server and there was that you can't do that because it's not how this works decentralized put on a server that server could be attacked and then everything gone okay well let's use that let's just piggyback on the good

Michael:

network

Brent:

so that that's just a really cool well thought out decision that i i don't have enough knowledge to argue is the why that might be that so i think that's a really smart landed the final comment gonna bring up is i did post in the subreddit to ask them about the possible centralization which i got taken care of but the i want to know what the user experience is like on the barter becks i didn't have time to try it out so what i said was look if you tell me what your user experience is like i will not present it is my own i'll say this is the over beating but i was like please be please be honest and i didn't get an answer to the question of which is easier either delta or the barter necks but i did get a couple of answers that said there is a learning curve to the barn backs that they're trying to figure out and right now it is not the most user from there is apparently a test of software in balad which we have linking the show notes where you khun go test out their network with beer and pizza toe tokens that air free to own his name's you want and you can move it around there called beer pizza so you can trade beer for pizza and just see we what it's like to use that so that if you're a developer you want to see what that's like or maybe if you are it's like

Michael:

basically

Brent:

yeah that's their their version of a test net of their barton x so that was pretty cool i wish i had the time to look at up but i didn't go through that i was also show i was also given a link to a video that has the user experience which all added in the show not stoop so looks like it's probably a con right now that they're working on turning into not gone

Michael:

yeah i mean we've accounted that a lot in this base it still has to be a con i agree with you hundred percent because the user experience for so many of these projects is so brutal we talk about that all the time we think it's going to change but until it does it's just not going to become popularly adopted you know

Brent:

okay

Michael:

so i think that's going to wrap it up and for those people wondering if they are interested Michael where could they buy this

Brent:

they're basically will ever allow the usual places finance bad rigs up it everything they're all

Michael:

ok and what do you think are the main competitors

Brent:

all that forms our main competitors here you're looking at the syria and you're looking at garden oh you're looking at you know neo you're looking at i come anything like that i icon a ce faras the decks is we could be talking about zero x protocol you could be talking

Michael:

about i'll print out the

Brent:

khyber network yeah tons of competition here there and they're certainly not in a ditch down space here

Michael:

okay i think competition is tough when you're trying to compete with everybody all right so i guess the last question here Michael this is where we get a little bit more person also for the audience this is no longer the realm effect but it is the realm opinion Michael what is your personal future outlook here

Brent:

so look into my crystal ball here here's one thing that i could see having i could see this being like the place you go to substitute kickstarter and i know we compare i ceos the kickstarter all time but they're not user friendly enough to really be a caper i feel like you could use the comm oto platform as a legitimate kickstarter for for instance your business like let's say you own a coffee company you want to say all right we're going to do and i seo for our coffee but everybody who buys one of our coins can also trade it in for a bag of our coffee and you put it out there and i think that the way kamata set up in the way they have everything with their dex set up this may be a very elegant solution for doing a non regulated by seo so for instance telling

Michael:

scotty i know i could be

Brent:

completely wrong on that but that seems like a a niche that they could end up a

Michael:

choir all right yeah that that makes sense i will say that while you were explaining this project you know i'll be honest this is obviously personal is we discussed i didn't see a lot of reasons why most i ceo's would pick something like this over the established very much like when you could be i need twenty token aura and epi five token or whatever the case might be however if they are able to really implement this as a backup there are going to be project somewhere that wantto launches an i c e o and can't either because of regulation or suppression or because of where they are or because the majority of their target audience won't be able to participate because of the regulations in that territory so for the same reason that there will always be a market for something like manero even if it is small i believe that there will always be some kind of market for decentralized unregulated i ceo type launches and then the other thing i would add add here for personal future outlook which i love is this concept of merging into the bitcoin network i know i already mentioned it but i just think it's really cool i hope that it happens with more more coins not necessarily just bitcoin but it just really begins to show the complexity of this space as block change become interconnected and into interdependent and it starts creating you know really inherent value on the fact that the entire space is intertwined in really interesting ways and it eliminates that perspective from the outside somebody that doesn't understand the space might just look at bitcoin and say all these people are just paying nine thousand dollars for imaginary dollars

Brent:

so pretty cool

Michael:

overall it's a very interesting project before i wrap it up grant is there anything that you would like to add or mention our plug

Brent:

no you know what there's random thought i i did see this that what if bitcoin says hey you can't be putting all this information on watch anymore like this way too

Michael:

much information and they're trying

Brent:

to like make it less and the easy argument against that is that this is a legitimate use case for big point why would why would they want to make a use case less useful and then if they ever for whatever reason decided to hurt their network by making this less useful use case then they could just move to a different i work with

Michael:

yeah i'll add their number one they could move to a network that is going to implement charting which i know is something like our donna is going to do so it's not going to be as memory intensive or bitcoin itself my implement charting at some point but i agree with you i know personally i've told you before that i don't really see bitcoin evolving as a let's say just a transactional currency more of a critical store of value but this is also an excellent point like bitcoin can also create a lot of value by providing security to other block chains and increase a center of computing power that multiple black kings could draw from so this is really interesting but i think we've basically covered most of it brian thank you very much for explaining this project it was really interesting i really think you did a good job especially breaking down atomic swaps and breaking down the concept of delayed proof of work we would like to remind you that we do this with many many projects are one o one episodes can be listened to in any order we've covered big corn ethereum card a no icon almost anything you can think of in the top twenty we've already covered and some coins outside the top twenty if you haven't done so already please consider joining our discord do we have a lot of information on a lot of discussion from mining to announcements and you know interesting events that have occurred in the world of cryptocurrency and lastly if you want to support the podcast please

Brent:

share it or

Michael:

raid us on itunes that's probably the most effective thing you could do to help to show so that's going to wrap it up for us that was bred philbin breaking down comodo for us my name is corinne baru kei thank you so much for tuning in and we'll see you next week

Brent:

wave that was

Michael:

a get o because dragons i get it

Brent:

you

Michael:

know actually you just remind me what a bunch of idiots we are so the memories of the crypt of basic podcasts are not financial advisors thiss was not financial advice remember all investments have inherent risk

The members of the CryptoBasic podcast are not financial advisors, and this information is provided for entertainment purposes. Please do your own research, and don't listen to these idiots.

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