CryptoBasic Podcast

Your source for all Cryptocurrency information, made for the novice investor. 

I mean, i feel like i could tell you why any of the coins i picked is my top five could fail pretty easily, but having all five means like, i don't need him all the work.

The Poker Guys:

I just need one of them to work.

The Poker Guys:

Like you're saying or there are other things, too.

The Poker Guys:

Like other coins to that that thief wait, thanks for tuning in to the crypto basic podcast.

The Poker Guys:

My name is michael aki, and this episode is part of a crypto convo siri's which are standalone interviews with someone or some group that we think will provide value to our listeners.

The Poker Guys:

Today's guests are members of the poker guys, which provide content across various platforms with poker related content and that's a little bit different than what we normally cover were mostly a crypto podcast with a little bit of poker sprinkled in. So, guys, how we doing this afternoon?

Mike:

Great. Thanks for having us were excited to talk about krypton. Not just poker, you know?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, absolutely. We definitely have a fairly solid background in poker and crypto. And so we think this will be relevant.

The Poker Guys:

Hopefully more than fairly solid in poker. We call ourselves the poker guys there enough, you know, you know that.

The Poker Guys:

The crypto basic. We know that title's air just kind of a formality, but listen, like we know that we're content providers, we provide entertainment. For the most part. We don't offer financial advice, but we do want is to encourage critical thinking, and we want to basically give people the opportunity to learn along with us. And we decided to create this podcast as what we would have wished that we found. We started learning about krypto. One of the things that we like to ask our guests right away is, did you guys have any particular, like, ah ha, moments where you thought to yourself while like this krypto thing is like, going to be a big deal, and i need to learn more.

Mike:

I think i had an ah ha moment recently. That was not really about how it's going to be a big deal, but a big reason that it should be, and it was.

The Poker Guys:

Always obvious to me encrypted that this was a big deal the self banking thing but i had my bank my fiat bank call me and ask me for my employment information and you started thinking about that and thinking you're supposed to hold my money right like what's the deal here why do you need anything else besides my account number your bank right?

The Poker Guys:

You're not supposed to know my employment information doesn't matter and the whole greater thing around that just feels like banks aren't what they say they are they're not really the same financial institutions that they originally set out to be encrypted trying to replace them in a more organic way where you have control of your money just feels really like something important to me i had something recently happened as well where i sold some stock you know normal like on e trade and it took two weeks from the time i sold the stock to actually holding the cash in my hand two full weeks and that was a ce fast as it could possibly get to me you know i did everything as soon as i could but there's you know so many five business days for this three business days for this oh you go to the bank to get the money they don't have it all they need to go get it takes days to get the cash for the bank to even have the cash this wasn't by the way, like a million dollars with the stock or anything, it was like a reasonable amount.

The Poker Guys:

It was the kind of money that i would have guessed the bank could have on hand, really, just remember, actually came into work and said to grant man descriptive thing's, going to be so big like this is exactly the kind of thing that crypt was supposed to solve, right, like there's.

The Poker Guys:

No way that should take any amount of time it all in, and like with bitcoin, it takes twenty minutes with dash.

The Poker Guys:

It can take one second like that, with many different, you know, there's all sorts of different amounts of time, but almost all of them are on our or less and compared to taking weeks when it's your money, it just seems like, how could this not become where we go?

The Poker Guys:

This feels like it has its.

The Poker Guys:

Funny that you you have that story because i have a very similar banking story with bank of america who ended up closing all of my accounts for suspicion of money laundering when it was all poker related activities that i was open and honest about from the very beginning, and they closed my account.

The Poker Guys:

It took him four weeks to mail me a check for what?

The Poker Guys:

The money that was in my count, and the whole process left me so bitter and so frustrated and it's really annoying that those types of agencies, those times of entities air, really concerned about so many of the wrong principles and the wrong things at this point, and i totally understand frustration there.

The Poker Guys:

So why don't you guys give us some type of general idea of what your youtube channel or, you know, i saw you kind of separate content for a podcast?

The Poker Guys:

You have a youtube content which i've gone over, some of it think that's all there's also some unique stuff on twitter.

The Poker Guys:

What you guys go ahead and give us the elevator pitch is too what you provide, okay, essentially, we provide multimedia poker entertainment were on empire, of course, the poker guys now, essentially, we set out it's this is not a good elevator pitch, but we set out to sell coaching.

The Poker Guys:

Turned out the podcast was becoming popular and more fun than coaching turned out we made a video to promote the podcast that was more popular than the podcast and etcetera etcetera that's basically how it started and people seem to like it enough that we keep doing it and we really enjoy doing it to the point that now we're producing our own entirely in house produced poker show where we have a game here in portland where we live record it with an rpg table showing the whole cars and we do the commentary so when are we producing completely original content?

The Poker Guys:

Yes so we're doing that which is called poker time that comes out one to two times a week on our youtube channel which of course the poker guys and then the main thing which our podcast as well as our videos are about is just more hard core fun but hardcore poker analysis we call it the breakdown on the podcast we spend forty five minutes just talking about one hand much away you guys spend forty five minutes time out one crypto we'll watch one hand on television and break it down look at it from every possible angle at in a lot of jokes as well and that's sort of that's who we are and that's our brand in a pretty slow old elevator for that to be an elevator pitch that's that is a really tall building yeah yeah so having said that though we actually are fairly involved in crypto even from it like our company point of view yeah all of our sponsorship comes in some form of crypto we are paid for sponsorship exclusively in crypto currency we have a partnership with nitrogen sports poker room which pays us in bitcoin and we've done dash proposals in the past which pays us dash so that's kind of a fun different thing to just have no fiat income it all just all crypto income yeah and why we're probably someone you could at least some reason to actually have a conversation with on the show, right?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah no for sure and i actually noticed the nitrogen poker mentioned at some point on one of things i was looking at what you do you want to give a little more detail that is you you want to go down that sure why not?

The Poker Guys:

Nitrogen is an online poker site it operates as a bitcoin on ly poker site although they are looking into other kryptos is well and they are unlike many other poker sites they are a bitcoin wallet into itself onto itself is your account so there's no internal processing for them when they send you bytecoin or when you send them bytecoin it takes the time the blockchain takes so that's a really cool feature of them they've been operating for what four years something like that something like that they started as a sports betting site and have expanded in tow.

Mike:

Poker and other gambling is now so like a casino.

The Poker Guys:

And just for those of you out there listening, who don't know this with poker sites, as well as any kind of gambling online sites that are crypto related.

The Poker Guys:

Most of the places that pay you in crypto still have a longer processing time, like they have to put it through their own.

The Poker Guys:

People, like have accountants look at it.

The Poker Guys:

It can take days to get your money and that's, sort of our normal experience with everyone but nitrogen.

The Poker Guys:

Nitrogen.

The Poker Guys:

It takes minutes to get your money and it's really different.

The Poker Guys:

And one of the reasons why we love them.

Mike:

I'm really glad to hear that because one of the things that i hear the most in our discord is why don't you guys do reviews of casinos or poker sites and for the most part nothing's wowed me nothing's been worthwhile and part of me this is a very small part like i sometimes have a little bit issue with glorification of poker because of how difficult the road can be for a lot of people and you know, i've had fairly decent success on many levels but at the end of the day it's conflicting to me but to hear that there is somebody that you guys like is going to give me a pretty different view on it and i'm actually going to probably end of checking them out and maybe end up doing some type of episode on them because we would like to be able to say yeah, we don't mind this site they do enough things well, you know, certainly no project is perfect, but a lot of them when it comes to the pros and cons, they just don't hold up i got to tell quick story.

The Poker Guys:

All right?

The Poker Guys:

So this is one of our favorite stories about nitro and i know there are sponsors, so you could say we're just showing for them we're really not nobody but you're being honest about and that's all that's one of the most important things does no, we really feel good about them.

The Poker Guys:

This is cool, though, so we were doing a i think it was a free roll, right?

The Poker Guys:

It was either a free roll or appoint one millet been buyin tournament.

Mike:

That was like you click the link that we give people and you're gonna get access to that and you get to play us.

The Poker Guys:

We play the tournament also, usually they're right.

The Poker Guys:

We don't get that many runners we got.

The Poker Guys:

I think we got sixty five runners in that sixty five players, so they were supposed to guarantee some, like, small amount.

The Poker Guys:

That was more than the prize pool, fifty militants or something like that, right?

The Poker Guys:

So it's going to be, like, way more like five hundred, you need five hundred players.

The Poker Guys:

We're going to get sixty five, was going very happy, and that was this is one.

The Poker Guys:

Bitcoin was at forty, four hundred belief.

The Poker Guys:

I think it was more but something like whatever somewhere in that nature, somewhere between forty, five hundred six thousand they accidentally guaranteed a bitcoin instead of, like fifty mil a bit so twenty times what they were supposed to guarantee because i work for us and our sponsor.

Mike:

I saw this just before the tournament was about to start and texted their guy, and he got the message before the term it started, he had a chance to cancel the tournament, it changed it whatever, and he said, oh, well, that's, just our problem, i guess, and guaranteed the bitcoin anyway, and so instead of first place being something like, you know, twenty mil a bit that was point for bitcoin or something with a huge amount of money is thousands and thousands of dollars or four off for what, forty five cent buying something resembling that.

The Poker Guys:

So, like, that was something you just never see an online casino, do i mean, i like i've had lots of experience with the online casinos, sports books where they steal from you, they don't pay out there's lots of trust issues are experienced so far with these guys and we we've been with them now for over a year is that they really go the other way, so it's been really i mean, they're really impress us hey that's all we're looking for that's really glad to hear that at least somebody is out there trying to do it right.

The Poker Guys:

You know what?

The Poker Guys:

It comes to exchanges?

Mike:

We are really critical of lively exchanges, you know, by nancy tends to do an excellent job head and shoulders above the rest.

The Poker Guys:

I've also you know, i was pretty active in online poker as early as oh seven, probably i was i was pretty active before black friday.

The Poker Guys:

Obviously that change matters, but why don't you guys give us a little background on your poker resume?

The Poker Guys:

Like, what do you guys play on a regular basis?

The Poker Guys:

What is your favorite game, i guess, and anything along those lines?

The Poker Guys:

Sure, i essentially only play no limit hold'em i know that's dumb because there's bigger edges to find other places, maybe your ideas doesn't really know what i'm talking about, but no limit.

The Poker Guys:

Hold'em is what they're always playing in the movies, stuff like that and it the game that the most people study a lot of the time at the high levels, it's very hard to crack, essentially we don't.

The Poker Guys:

Really play for a living anymore.

The Poker Guys:

Both of us are former professional poker players, but now our job has become all of this poker, guys, media stuff.

Mike:

So, you know, we're going to spend a month at the world series of poker.

The Poker Guys:

We're going to play the main event.

The Poker Guys:

We're going to play all the big tournament and we go to events, but we don't play every day for a living.

The Poker Guys:

For a while.

Mike:

I was playing, and this was difficult, but i was making a living playing tournaments in portland, oregon.

The Poker Guys:

Portland, where we live, has strange municipal laws that this is after black friday.

The Poker Guys:

You want to say something?

The Poker Guys:

No, no, i think i know that the rules are very unique in the northwest, but as soon as i thought about it, i might have been mixing up montana's laws with portland's. But is it like bar poker, that's, like legal and stuff that is the nascent version of it that was happening about fifteen years ago, okay, it evolved into these social gaming clubs that through some municipal law that's from, like the nineteen seventies about playing kino or something like that, they managed to open these social gaming clubs where the players will pay ah, set door feet to become members of the club in air quotes, and for that day they're members of the club that's the entirety of the rake the club can take, and then the clubs run tournaments and cash games, but the cash games are called shootout tournaments because they technically have to be tournaments.

Mike:

You can't tip the dealer in chips during the cash game, stuff like that. So portland has these unique laws that allow for live poker much better rake structure for the player than is usually the case in most scenarios, it's not a huge market, but it's getting bigger because these clubs are allowed in. So between black friday and poker guys becoming a profitable venture, i was making a living, playing mostly just tournaments in portland and then traveling for bigger stuff every once in a while, hoping for the best. Last year i had a pretty good world siri's, although i wasn't really a professional poker player at the time, i was just doing my poker guy thing you're allowed, yeah in general, i'm a tournament guy and that's what i've always done online and live, jonathan has little bit of a difference.

The Poker Guys:

I'm smiling, i guess they can't see us, but i'm smiling now is granting this because he's being very modest, he had a pretty good world serious.

Mike:

What he means by that is he finished fifth in the world series of poker event for i guess it's all public, right?

The Poker Guys:

So i can say these things for almost one hundred thousand dollars and had a great world.

The Poker Guys:

Siri's i had a good world siri's i played in the millionaire maker witches has nine thousand entries.

The Poker Guys:

I finished the hundredth.

The Poker Guys:

I'm in that which paid pretty well, but nothing close to what granted it's very top heavy in the poker world really is which goes to what you were saying earlier when you were talking about people getting into poker.

The Poker Guys:

It's a hard road like the top heaviness of it makes it really tough to break in.

The Poker Guys:

I was a professional poker player for many years a cash game specialist, although i play tournament successfully too.

The Poker Guys:

But for many years there's a limit hold'em specialist, actually, and there's a game that's a very tough game, this yeah.

The Poker Guys:

You know, when you're good at it, though, it's ah ah so yes, i would there's a game half hour from here, which i would play three times a week, and that was fine.

The Poker Guys:

And so i did that till i got i sort of burnt out in about two years ago, and luckily we were doing poker guys stuff, and it sort of took off, and here we are, actually, of avarice, similar story.

The Poker Guys:

I put in a lot of hours two thousand sixteen thousand seventeen.

The Poker Guys:

I just got completely burn out and started looking at other ventures and found crypto got totally obsessed and talk these guys into doing this podcast.

The Poker Guys:

And now we're here and now it's been very refreshing to take the stress off of poker, to take a step back and say, you know what?

Mike:

I don't feel like going to play two days, and i don't have to and that's fine and being able to take that pressure off has actually helped, like gave tremendously hundred.

The Poker Guys:

Percent agree.

Mike:

I find that poker is a lot more fun when it's not your only source of income. That's for sure. When it's like a bonus if you win that's great, really good feeling. And i want to echo again your statement earlier that people should be cautioned about getting into poker is a professional it's like it's. A very hard road. Not only is it a less than zero sum game, but the best players win over and over and over again. So there's just not that much for that many people to win.

The Poker Guys:

Yeah. That's. Right. It's. Hard to make it as a pro. I mean, well, i guess the three of us have done it, but we put a lot of time into it. A lot of effort and, you know, some months are really good. And some what's a really bad even when you're good at poker, you know, at least good enough to make a living that's like it's. True in the crypto world too, though, right? Like, absolutely, like it's.

The Poker Guys:

Been kind of a rocky road meeting.

Mike:

December was a month that happened.

The Poker Guys:

That was a good month.

The Poker Guys:

That was a good month, you know, twenty eighteen, spin, a little rougher.

The Poker Guys:

You're certainly right in we talk a lot about how we counter the common beliefs in the crypt the world about how technical analysis is a good trading tool and how people can use it to you know make profitable decisions well our personal team stance is that we don't have enough evidence to prove that technical analysis actually works and we use we went in a very detailed up sewed called biases one o one well recovered a lot of bias is that people have in their lives a lot of them were poker related a lot of them were crypto related but basically you know survivorship biases and full play here if a million people go out and be traders well those top one percent are going to show the top ten percent how great they are and there's going to be people that stand out is out liars but we don't know what degrees of luck played into that and what actually makes somebody successful trader we don't actually know if there is a long run like there isn't poker we don't know how long it's going to take to get a decent sample size of people that are trading cryptocurrencies you know day and night not to mention that you know we look at rake when it comes to cash games or tournaments all your trading fees on every single trade you make possible tax implications so these are just some of the like correlations we draw between the two and i think there's a huge comparison between technical analysis trading and poker in general i think ari paul retweeted something today which it's going to get this little bit wrong but something like investing in crypto currencies a little bit like buying a medallion for a taxi for a city that hasn't been built yet you know it's like so much future planning and hope and you know you just don't know there's so much you don't know well it's also interesting the correlation between that in poker is the thrill of the gamble you know you see these people make this money you see darwin moon make a ton of money in poker you see schlub a investing bitcoin in twenty thirteen and now they're a billionaire yeah and that's really enticing the people and it really it is that kind of gambling juice going in their brain the same that you have these minus evey poker players coming back and they keep playing for that thrill that big win that they could get in that i feel like probably a lot of that's happening in crypto with you know all of this trading that's going on from just completely irrelevant place you know mentally that said i mean i can't imagine it's really hard for me to imagine a future ten fifteen years from now a crypt was not a huge part of it for most people in the world agree i certainly agree i think crypto is a major part of the of the future and you know we talk about it all the time one of the interesting questions we'd like to ask our guests since or two of you can both play if you'd like if you have to hold for ten years what are your top five coins?

Mike:

Why don't you go jonathan dozens more into the all the coins that all the altar and stuff like that okay, i think the first one is pretty obvious but i'm going with the theory um theory and feels like so much is built on its black chain and its overall network in that i think it seems pretty reasonable long term like ten year long term hold i am in love with a smaller coin called funfair i know if you guys it's been one of the ones that have been asked for us to look into yeah again i only looked at the front value of it and it was one of that fell into the very similar category is the poker so you nitrogen poker i want to get into it but there's so many projects that just never and when you're a crypto podcast that's like saying hey have you guys done every season of high stakes poker like probably not i mean would be very difficult to get every single hand out but it's certainly one that i've looked at yeah, so just with one sentence version of fun fair it's a sort of a casino based coin where the idea is using blockchain it's provably fair games and it uses smart contract so that way you are always the custodian of your own money as opposed to the way it normally works where you have to like ship money to an account you basically hit all the trust issues with online gaming in casinos and things like that.

The Poker Guys:

So i think that's a really important problem to solve and so and fun fair is like at the forefront there's a few coins trying to do it but they're at the forefront of it in my opinion so that's number two i think we gotta pick a strong currency based coin here as well it's really close for me between like bitcoin dash bitcoin cash those dudes i guess bitcoin i guess i'd stick with, you know, just for brandon that like in a legacy and all that that couldn't be number three for me number four i'm gonna go with cardano cardano being, you know, this like sort of a theory um killer in its own way but also one that's trying to do use metadata and stuff like that to make much smarter we love cardano as a team really it's it's like across the board like our number one oh really oh cool yes faster and smarter basically is what he's trying to be that's for and then i get to pick a fifth one too is very excited i guess omg omi sago yep just sort of like that it's on our very short term list to record we have yet to record that but right now we're working on getting charles hoskins sit on the podcast the lead creator for ah cardano and i think that's something we can do by the end of the year so we're excited about that he does a lot of podcast a lot of youtube channels he'll just just go with the help of a two hour long interview and and he does awesome work real excited it would be dishonest for me toe come up with a list that was any different than levees because he basically does all the crypto research between the two of us so i'm not going to pretend i know something different grant i understand your role that a lot of this podcast is be deferred to buy us but i'm the poker guy a little bit more than they are so they thought i was a better fit here but i got to give a shout out to banana coin just for a second because you know you've got to get some organic bananas sometimes and you want to use crypto currency have you heard of wednesday coin wednesday not wednesday coin is a coin that can, on ly be traded on wednesdays.

The Poker Guys:

It's a real thing.

The Poker Guys:

I mean, i think it is exactly zero value, like literally zero value, but i own a million of them, just in case.

The Poker Guys:

Also woman coin or a maybe it's women coin, i think it's woman called kucoin for women, but there's.

Mike:

No reason why they just say that there may be a reason.

The Poker Guys:

It sounds like you guys trade on crypto pia that's, where i find all these types of coins.

The Poker Guys:

I'm i'm on finance for, but i keep my head in the game.

Mike:

Actually, i'm also like for me, honorable mention walton chain, which i know has some, like potential credibility issues.

The Poker Guys:

But if they're doing what they say they're doing and it seems like they aren't very exciting, yeah.

Mike:

We were not very big fans of walton coin when the fake twitter awards or giving things like that were pretty harsh on home, but again, we are aware that a lot of the things that we don't like are going to be small criticisms at the end of the day.

The Poker Guys:

But when it comes to actual, pure fundamental analysis, you have to factor all those in when you're making investing decisions, certain projects will outweigh that.

The Poker Guys:

I'm a big fan of lux project l u x, and they just hired john mcafee is as an influencer, and that is a huge issue with me.

The Poker Guys:

But now i have to decide.

Mike:

Well, how am i going to respond to this news?

The Poker Guys:

I don't know yet so there's so much that is involved in so much your decision making process similar to how you would play a hand there's just a lot that goes into it.

Mike:

So let's go into a little bit more about this dash proposal.

The Poker Guys:

I know you guys had one that passed with the ninety four percent vote.

The Poker Guys:

Why don't you start there and kind of let us know how this all originated?

The Poker Guys:

Shirt.

The Poker Guys:

Well, we were told about the dash treasury by friend, who is heavily into dash and a big fan of dash and sod.

Mike:

Is this kind of shangrila this amazing opportunity not only for such a cool idea for cryptocurrency tohave this treasury, which is funding projects that are either promotional or use case based there sometimes just development team stuff, but it was an opportunity for us to have a sponsor through a different medium than we're used to it's not taking it from an online poker site like nitrogen saying to a crypto currency, we think poker players are great audience.

The Poker Guys:

We think we need to get dash in front of poker players, eyes.

Mike:

We have these subscribers, we have this audience, we'll talk about it.

The Poker Guys:

What do you say, that's?

Mike:

Basically the gist of it.

The Poker Guys:

It's an interesting thing it's like we're used to because we've had we've been doing this for a number of years now you know, doing the poker guys and we've had many meetings with potential sponsors have had many different sponsors many different online poker rooms and things like that so we're used to basically having a forty five minute meeting and convincing one person and so instead we had to make a whole proposal we shot a video with it as well and try it we tried to convince something like three thousand people to vote for us you know instead of one person and it's ah it's an interesting sort of path to take one of the other really fascinating things about the dash treasury and doing dash proposals is theirs it's not just like you can decide to do it there's a cost which goes along with it it cost five dash to even submit a proposal and so when we did that dash was at eleven hundred dollars so we spent fifty five hundred dollars asking them to sponsor so we will have to be pretty sure it was gonna work out and luckily it did that one there is a pre proposal system that people will tell you if you have a horrible idea at least and that is never passing but it's not foolproof obviously we have a second proposal and that is definitely not passing yeah pre proposal system didn't really indicate that to us in any serious way.

The Poker Guys:

No, not at all.

The Poker Guys:

Like we thought i thought we had about a fifty percent chance of passing.

Mike:

Grant was a little more optimistic, i would say, but we're getting crushed just right, of course it's there's more there's factors too many outside factors the climate, the price of the crypto currency because the treasury is funded by a certain percentage of dash and it has no fiat equivalent that it's always going to fund.

The Poker Guys:

So the lower the price of dash, the fewer proposals could get funded right like dash was about was under three hundred.

The Poker Guys:

When we submit this proposal was eleven hundred seven of the last one meaning they had, like twenty eight percent of the funds that they had four months ago.

The Poker Guys:

And there's actually, more people are learning about the dash treasury.

The Poker Guys:

So there's more competition than there used to be.

The Poker Guys:

Also, so is much harder now to get within all there's been more necessity in the treasury, meaning the development teams are coming in with huge proposals.

The Poker Guys:

Taking up a big chunk of it makes it a lot harder for promotional stuff to get through and the and the development stuff is like from there's, sort of called dash core, which is a company just run by some of the main players and dash.

Mike:

And so they're doing a lot of development in hiring software.

The Poker Guys:

People in whatever.

Mike:

And so they just every so often come in and ask for, you know, twenty percent of the treasury to pay for the salaries for all these programmers and stuff like that.

The Poker Guys:

And they just do that multiple times a year.

Mike:

And that's, fine.

The Poker Guys:

But it's tough cardano little guys sometimes.

The Poker Guys:

So we actually were big fans of dash and i don't mind you know, saying that we absolutely loved the treasury system we think it's crucial to any cryptocurrency project that is looking long term tohave that sustainability model and i seo model is going to run out no matter how big you think it's going to be out successful it's going to be the dash treasury is something we're big on for when we did our deep dive into pivx ix which is a dash fork we learned a lot more about the treasury system that we didn't know and that there's little details such as if thie proposals do not use of the budget the remaining funds are burned so on ly treasuries proposed that are approved get paid out so we were looking into some of the pivx ix treasury models and also zen cash is another one that is it is a fork of z cash which also came from dash origins they're goingto have a multitude of douse that vote on proposals so it's like a very interesting concept we actually just released are some cash episode and we interviewed one of the creators robbed big leonie so you know, i think you guys should take a look at those as well as faras long term idea certainly not something that is going to potentially get this other proposal fixed i guess my next question though if you could go back in tweak your proposal in anyway, would you change anything?

The Poker Guys:

I think the answer is probably no, i think it's possible, we could have come in a little cheaper, but i'm not sure if that would have mattered that much.

The Poker Guys:

I think, honestly, we are slightly victims of the climate and slightly victims of ourselves being overly ambitious with our whole idea, like we wantto have a documentary style log essentially, which is an expensive endeavor and it's hard to demonstrate that value without having already made that.

The Poker Guys:

And i think that's a bit of a downfall, so i don't know we were kind of in a corner with this one, i think as faras what we could've done differently, it was always a little bit of a long shot, this particular proposal, i think maybe we could have done a better job, we still potentially, by the way, there's still some time, we could go on and do some of this stuff, but i think we could potentially done a better job educating the voters on sort of like what's really going on the world's siri's what kinds of people are there?

The Poker Guys:

Like we sort of talked about it a little bit, but where i think we're assuming some knowledge that maybe that's probably true, yeah.

The Poker Guys:

So that's a big part of this too?

The Poker Guys:

Like on the first proposal, no one knew who we were, so we're sort of made a video explaining we are we talked a lot about who our audiences in great depth and why they're like the perfect audience for dash and for crypto in general, and we made a really good case and as you said, like we passed with ease, i think our first ninety four votes were yes, votes and was just like, simple, it was great, and this was i think maybe we thought we assume they knew who we were going to trust us and not give them so we did.

The Poker Guys:

Maybe we didn't give him as much information, but if i don't know if it would have mattered, though, i don't think it would've mattered.

The Poker Guys:

I think when kryptos down treasury systems are going to be far less apt to fun promotional campaigns because they have all of this corps development that needs to be done, and they're asking for eleven hundred dash instead of three hundred dash, you know which they would have asked for if it was three months ago, so the system is just tough for promotional campaigns when kryptos down, which is part of it as well, treasuries are interesting.

The Poker Guys:

Because like so, the dash treasuries fascinating and really exciting piece i agree with you but there's no obvious downsides to it as well, which is someone who is like in the old days people used to with dash like make a proposal get paid and not do anything and that was a real problem for dash to the point where someone finally got a proposal funded which is doing oversight on the proposals that get funded because they can't trust people enough like that was a real problem there finally like getting better at that that's one piece the other thing is there could be a lot of sort of following that goes on so it's a community but they're clear leaders in the community and i don't think this affected us to be clear, but so for example, like when core, which is that main company puts together a proposal right now automatically passes no matter what, even though sometimes they're sort of questionable proposals like some stuff which gets a lot of critique from the community and feels like they're sort of not doing a great job and they are cayman account for some of the money they spent there's more promotional stuff, not development stuff, but this happened two months ago where i don't think one of them is going to get through, but then it got through kind of easily it was for a lot of money, i'm not saying, by the way, it was a bad proposal, you're allowed to be critical of others while respecting what they're offering us well, yeah, yeah, but i believe if they weren't called dash court that absolutely that proposal would never have gone through, you know, and so there's this community aspect of it happens where a few like thought leaders really do point people in particular directions, which is understandable, but there's also like forty or fifty proposals every month, they're in depth.

The Poker Guys:

People don't have time to read them all.

Mike:

There's some issues that go along with this, which isn't as easy as this is just great period in terms of someone who holds dash for the coin, i think there's real pros and cons, right?

The Poker Guys:

I mean, but to be fair, it's tough when you're trying to create a decentralized, autonomous government.

Mike:

This is a great point that sounds pretty tough, so you know they're going to be some hurdles, and of course, over time, they're trying to tweak it.

The Poker Guys:

It's going to be messy?

The Poker Guys:

Vegas governments, messy anyone?

The Poker Guys:

S o one of the big things that we focus on when we we analyze pros and cons a lot of things or trade offs and that's what we really put our foot down and decided there is a really um important middle ground here the treasury has some good to it it has some bad to it but they don't necessarily need to be like good and evil it's just it's a tradeoff so dash because of the price for a master node being quite high a one point it's obviously gone down recently but having a thousand dash for master node really sets apart how many people can actually own them and you know last i checked there's six hundred fifty dash master nodes or something along those lines so it's easier to influence six hundred fifty voters than it would be a lot more one of the things we liked about zen cast for example is that they have ah there first secure node starts at around forty two zen which is around a thousand u s dollars they have over ten thousand nodes and they have they're tao system is you know going through some they're working with iowa h k who works with cardano project to develop these governance systems but they're going through a new voting system where every important player is gonna have a vote on their systems so like the top six exchanges in trade volume for their coin will have a vote on their proposal if they want them or they could delegate them but then like you know different entities like the creators have a couple votes you can purchase votes for donating zen and if you want to push her proposal you're able to so they actually took a lot of what dash was trying to do and there's trying to find certain types of fixes now are they going to do it that's difficult to say you know i'm invested in some cash i want to make that clear i do not currently on any dash i have at some point but they're just so money like tradeoffs that exist in the cryptocurrency space that even though what you're saying is kind of frustrating and i do understand why that is kind of an annoying results it's still so much better than the alternatives and we still have a long way to go where such were such infants as faras crypto currency is concerned it is what it is yeah, no, i mean, i actually i think the whole point of trade offs is a really good point and, well, grand, i have actually had a meeting we've been meeting about this last day or so of trying to come up with solves for some of these issues around the dash master nodes and voting and things like that to see if we can create some solutions, so that way, people don't have to spend twelve hours a month researching, and i mean, i know what it's like, you know, when i get local opportunity to vote locally, and i don't know what any of these things really mean, i don't know enough about these things, i'm sort of voting, and i feel like dumb doing it.

The Poker Guys:

I feel like that must happen with some of these master note spots because there's, just too many proposals, so we're actually looking into trying to solve some of that for ourselves, but also for dash, right?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, all right, so one of the things in your most recent proposal that i thought was very interesting, i've gone to the world serious quite a few times i've spent the full, you know, summer in vegas, it's, brutal, but your idea of hosting the dash tournaments, what was your vision like for that?

Mike:

Well, it evolved over time.

The Poker Guys:

At first we were trying to go big with it and be like, you know what, we're going to partner with the casino.

Mike:

We're going to get, like, seventy tables, and we're going to have this huge dash tournament, and that was just untenable as faras us actually doing that along with this daily documentary and playing poker and everything.

The Poker Guys:

So we decided we were going to go with ultimately turned into the idea of like, a three table sitting go invite only dash by in tournament, we could easily get a casino to give us three tables for that, no problem just have to pay him a little bit, probably so the idea was just to get people interested in the idea of using dash for poker because it's a perfect use case.

The Poker Guys:

We actually have a friend who in portland here, a business partner who had the death proposal that got through hosting the first crypto tournament and that's happened now twice in portland, so we're kind of taking a page out of his book, yeah.

The Poker Guys:

I was personally hoping anyway, that we would do this sort of, as the first one would be if we pull this off anyway, we get, like three tables of people playing poker with dash buy ins and dash payouts and hope for the second one, it could be even a little bit bigger, you know, but the reason why, to be clear it was untenable to do a bigger tournament was it's incredibly hard to find a poker space?

Mike:

Is that big in vegas that isn't already got their whole summer figured out, so i did a bunch of calling around and most i could really find was, oh yeah, we have, we have, we have eight to ten tables, we can do that, but i was looking at one hundred tables.

The Poker Guys:

I was thinking, let's, go a thousand people to play this tournament, you know, have a big overly.

The Poker Guys:

It'll be amazing, but that's also a lot of work, and we couldn't find a place to do it.

The Poker Guys:

I thought this was an incredible investment of time and the work that would have had to gone in to make that happen.

Mike:

I was going to give you, you know, pat on the back, if he digs out of impressive, i can't even get a cocktail served in a reasonable amount of time and you're going to try to run a poker tournament, and i've heard nothing but bad things, not bad things.

The Poker Guys:

I've heard nothing but complex things about the nevada gaming commission, and i don't know that they have a problem with this, but i certainly wouldn't want to have that conversation with him to try to explain to them why i think this is a good idea, it just seems like could fall on deaf ears.

Mike:

They certainly hope that wouldn't have been the case, but it's certainly a possibility that is a possibility, i guess we never got that far, so we'll weigh exactly.

The Poker Guys:

Well, hopefully we can co sponsor wanted two thousand nineteen and we'll do it all going to be awesome let's do that?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, we're we definitely have a lot of things in the works as faras crypto poker tournaments, where we're thinking about big stuff with this in the future really, really big stuff, shockingly big stuff, actually.

Mike:

Today i was sponsored by the seminal hard rocks in florida for about four years.

The Poker Guys:

I just ended recently, but thie types of money that flows through crypto through poker rooms just never ceases to amaze me.

Mike:

And every time there's been, you know, big wire transfers, it's such a complicated situation, people don't want to do it there just bring in cash and there's borrowing whoever slow kal and just paying in crypto and then sending it back.

The Poker Guys:

I really think this needs to be adopted her and in the poker world as soon as possible agreed.

Mike:

Yeah, i think it's going to have to happen for all these reasons we're talking about yeah, and as being witnesses to these crypto tournaments that that i mentioned earlier that have happened in portland, there's lots of a barrier to entry than you would think now part of his proposal was that he got a dash atm, which definitely expedites the process, but with that, i thought the lehman was going to be far more confused and far more reticent to try this, but the tournament got over one hundred entries each and people seemed excited about it and not scared of it, and i was a bit surprised that general layman, who would never really think about crypto currency at all, were perfectly fine buying into a a tournament for point to dash you know, and just fill that out, there's a few things, one pieces that the dash treasury because they funded this proposal there's an overlay, so they're giving an extra twenty percent of the price a pole.

The Poker Guys:

So it got a few more people out than otherwise wood and also at the dash t m the guy who has sort of runs the mme was sort of walking people through the process the first time as they were in line, because if you don't know what you're doing like, it feels like impossible.

The Poker Guys:

But i remember talking about this just a few days ago, and he was saying, but once you do it, once with them, they're comfortable and they're fine, and so i agree with grant that, like, people that way better than i thought they would do with way better.

The Poker Guys:

And then it's really cool by the way to buy in to a tournament in dash yeah, it's awesome.

Mike:

You just they put the little v r code or q r code, and you just go and it's over, you know, hit send band, they get it right away because it's dash it's one second later, you hear the little sound on their phone and it's paid it's incredible, i think.

The Poker Guys:

It would be a little careful with using poker lehman's as general lehman's because we certainly i attract a certain type of risk taker that is of really out of the norm so at times when i hear things like this like you know i'll wear my podcast shirt when i go play cash games and i don't force the conversation on people but i'm definitely open to talk about krypto as much people want and i still hear the hesitation but i also hear the well i bet on dogs and i play blackjack and what's the difference it can't be that bad so like yeah there's there's definitely some like risk taking desire that you know certain people have that i thinks pretty rare i totally agree with that but i also think that in the next twelve months there's going to be enough institutional money and banks that sort of start to come along and governments even that start to come along this enjoying this crypto train that it's going to start to feel more normal i really see this and self driving cars taking similar adoption too pivx paths which is like resistance you know finding like any flaw and attacking at you owe someone died once in a test lock that was you know you know it was altered what autopilot so that means it's dangerous you know it's sort of like stepping back and saying that well, one person dying is probably fine you know, i mean, not great.

The Poker Guys:

We don't want that way better.

The Poker Guys:

The normal driving cars.

The Poker Guys:

Exactly.

The Poker Guys:

Exactly.

The Poker Guys:

I really see similar paths, obviously not going to exactly the same.

The Poker Guys:

But i think as soon as you know, merrill lynch and those types of places, you know, really get deeply involved, and i don't see how they're going to avoid doing that.

The Poker Guys:

It's gonna be so much easier, and amazon starts accepting crypto for payments, which i gotta believe it's gonna happen in the next eighteen months.

The Poker Guys:

Stuff like that is just going to make it so much it's going to feel pretty normal toe adopt it.

The Poker Guys:

You know, i think it's just gonna happen all around people, and then just going to start using it, because it just is there.

Mike:

And if they've seen it enough, the repetition of it almost becomes like a persuasion unto itself.

The Poker Guys:

Yes, excellent point, grant.

The Poker Guys:

Thank you.

The Poker Guys:

I certainly hope you're right, i definitely see there's a lot of institutional money that is sitting on the sidelines that, you know, i'm hoping is working its way in slowly.

Mike:

I definitely think that eighteen months is probably a really good time frame.

The Poker Guys:

Well, you know, the ball is going to drop around twenty twenty, and we're gonna look around.

The Poker Guys:

We're going to like, we fucking did it, you know, this is this.

The Poker Guys:

This world is so much better than a decade ago. You know, what i really am curious about is what particular skill sets do you think are really aligned with each other when it comes to understanding poker and understanding cryptocurrency, i think the best poker players have, ah, highly analytical approach.

Mike:

And r this is kind of a buzz word. But, like their decisions or data driven rather than anecdote driven, you know, like the anecdote of the tesla that crashed the onetime versus the data of self driving cars will save ninety nine point nine percent of lives from would've died from drunk driving and shit like that. I mean, i think it's, a similar mindset among the best poker players and the best crypto thinkers that i am going to look at this in the least biased way possible, and allow myself to be disappointed if this doesn't work out. And this was a poor strategy. And so, for example, i think the like. Fanboys of coins who hate other coins that are in competition with that coin are the similar types of poker players who refused to change their style.

The Poker Guys:

Plan. I had a very similar story, and, you know, i i enjoyed a reasonable run up when i purchased ron, and i did pretty well on that. And then i did my research, and i was like, why? I'm glad i made money, but i really wish i hadn't made that poor choice originally. But how many people take a step back and say, okay, we're going to remove the results completely from this equation. I made a decision right here and what the information i had, i guess it was an okay decision, but the information i have now, it would be a really big mistake to continue remaining invested two years. So i totally understand your point yet.

Mike:

All the best poker players do exactly what you're talking about right there. Like all the time, i think, another. I don't it's a skill exactly, but peace is that the best poker players, especially time a tournament. But this is actually true, probably in general, but certainly for tournament poker players. Is that there's an understanding of variants, and by that, i mean, like, when you play a tournament, if you're good and you understand what's going on, you're tryingto win the tournament. You're not trying to just what we call min cash, which is where you make a little bit of money. You're trying to make a law a lot of money, and you understand that most of time, you're not going to do it, but once in a while, you finish fifth, like granted in the world series of poker, one of the events, and you make a hundred thousand ninety four thousand dollars.

The Poker Guys:

Or whatever it is, and that pays for all the times it didn't work out.

Mike:

Crypto, to me, is a lot like that, where it's like, i'm going to take a bunch of shots. I understand a lot of the time this isn't gonna work out, but when it does, it works out so frickin, well, it more than pays for everything and all the times it didn't work at all. And so this is this is a smart, good investment, even though it may go to zero most of the time, right?

The Poker Guys:

I really like what you're saying there and it's kind of like saying the median outcome is negative, but the overall expected value is positive because the super huge winds are pulling up the expected value so much it's like wildly possible.

The Poker Guys:

Its own understanding of that is, is that a perfect analogy of, like a good tournament player, knowing that in understanding that and a good krypto investor, knowing that an understanding if they continue to take good shots, he expected value is there, even if it hurts for a cuppa months, you know?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah.

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, i mean, i think it's like again, not financial advice, obviously, right. But, like, sinking money into crypto is the spot where if you are comfortable with losing that money, that money, money going is there, truly, and i have friends who have, like said that, but turns out it's, not really the case. You know, i watched them feel very bad as the last three months have happened in crypto let's say, we haven't all had our dark days on these rocky road times, but to me, it just seems like if you're if you're one who thinks some money and become for what they're going to zero it's worth, like the value of that money is worth so much more because of when it works. It's worth so much in the future, that's my belief anyway, so i'm very bullish in all this stuff for.

The Poker Guys:

Sure it's everything we hear you guys describe it the way they did because it overlaps my thoughts quite a bit my two hosts that i work with one of them is kind of in between and one of them's very much a indexed guy he holds bitcoin he owns ethereum he holds cardano yields dash you know so the top ten he's kind of fumbling around and not all that interested in looking around and you know i've actually had a very good friend we actually just one hundred twenty thousand this weekend at the hard rock in hollywood on a five k no limit tournament but he quit his job at a financial institution working for morgan stanley toe open a crypto hedge fund and i've sat down with him quite a bit and looked at it what is it like to manage a portfolio? I have no financial background i have nothing you know that other than my interest in crypto i don't have any ties to the financial world of you know poker obviously but whatever and you know we really took it as a term in approach and we've broken down he said listen dude, you gotta have thirty one percenters you have thirty projects that are one percent because you don't know who's going to partner with whom you don't know who's going to develop who who's going to get hacked who's going to have various things happen who's going to have a lead developer quit in the middle there project there's so much variants that goes into this. If you take out the obvious eighty percent of bad projects and you just take the remaining core that you like that you've done, your research on, you believe is a decent shot of working. Having thirty coins at one percent is almost certainly going to show a higher return and having five coins at twenty percent. Now, i did do a five point example earlier, but that's just kind of a theory question and not something that we necessarily force upon our listeners. So i think that was a really interesting point you guys brought up, and i thought it applied quite well.

Mike:

Yeah, i mean, i think it's a great point, just the notion that, like there's so much that's gonna happen in the future that we cannot see. And it's it's easy. And this goes back to a grant was saying about, like, the fanboys of particular coins, which if you go on, read it it's, like, if you go in any particular subreddit for a coin it's, like, i mean, everyone just owns that coin. They're trying to drive the price up, so they're saying good things about it, but it's, it feels like i'm in the donald on ready i could show you some reddit post we've made and some bread it's where we weren't fans of that coin, but our podcast got posted anyways, we'd get down, voted into oblivion people aren't even willing to listen.

The Poker Guys:

And but controversially, we've had moderator step up and say, you know what?

The Poker Guys:

They'll write like four paragraphs and say, you made great points here your criticism has heard here, and i agree with it for these reasons. I disagree with her for these reasons as well, but that doesn't mean that we have teo be rude towards each other. Disrespectful. I would like to hear your response to this, and sometimes we get surprised. We've been a little surprised that how the fan boys actually have some decent leadership involved.

Mike:

I mean, i feel like i could tell you why any of the coins i picked is my top five could fail pretty easily, but having all five means like i don't need him all the work.

The Poker Guys:

I just need one of them to work like you're saying or there are other things, too, like other coins to that could work, yeah, that's that all.

The Poker Guys:

Right?

The Poker Guys:

So one of the last questions i had i was curious you guys had mentioned on your proposal originally that you were interested in having a lot of sit downs with poker players and you know, poker influencers and kind of get an idea of like what their thoughts are or how they could you know, participate in your your daily video blog's or whatever who would interests you the most maybe top five or whatever people that you would be most excited to sit down to have a conversation with yeah this is easy one ahead i really would like to have a conversation with federal holt's because he's so freaking good for those who don't know and he just seems like a really smart guy and i would like to know more about his thoughts on other things than just poker he's just like a slam dunk for me feder holt's that's pretty good i think for what we were claiming we were going to be doing for the dash proposal though it looks like it's not going to go through so we won't be able to do it doug hulk would've been a great one whole course has a very popular crypto channel and is one of the best poker players in the world that have been great right phil ivey just cause he's so freaking cool just want to be in the same room with that guy so that's one it would seem to be criminal, not tohave, a combination of phil laak, antonio esfandiari, oh yeah, together, antonio's actually reach out to us in the past about potentially doing some stuff together anyway, so i feel like we could.

The Poker Guys:

That was one we could almost certainly pull off.

The Poker Guys:

I think that'd be hysterical, like, really fun, yeah, oh, and ah, little add on a little extra one, the guy who i've never met but always seemed like such a nice guy, but so smart and i just, like, wanna hang out with him is filled gala fund.

Mike:

Oh, sure, yeah, sure.

The Poker Guys:

I mean, can we not add phil home is, too.

The Poker Guys:

I don't want to know if i know, but i want to.

The Poker Guys:

I want to i choose not that i want it'll be funny, it's.

The Poker Guys:

Only funny time fell home.

The Poker Guys:

It is, of course, the brat of fokker.

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, such a cry, baby.

The Poker Guys:

He is a fascinating creature that's that's something i can say for sure actually funny feet or holt's story he started getting a lot of attention when he went deep in the main a couple years back a few days before that main event i played a one case sitting go with him and he let me have an eighty twenty chop in my favor when i was like seventy eight tow twenty two and chips that's my claim to fame is that its feet or gave me a two percent edge on a chopping a sitting go so so you're you're better than him clearly obviously, like he just gave up like i don't know what else to say how else can i interpret that that's probably the last time he ever give up an edge on a chop that may have been it i ruined it for everybody.

The Poker Guys:

I'm sorry.

The Poker Guys:

Maybe he was really hungry his friend his friend was like you talk about that guy what's wrong with you you know you know you need to get back in the lab and figure this poker thing got a little war.

The Poker Guys:

Yeah that's great.

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, it is great awesome.

The Poker Guys:

So is there anything else you guys what discussed?

Mike:

Is there anything you want to plug?

The Poker Guys:

Where do your subscriptions matter?

Mike:

Youtube anywhere else?

The Poker Guys:

Yeah, youtube were starting to beef up our facebook presents a little bit we have some videos coming out on facebook that are exclusive to facebook or twitter feed now is gonna have some more stuff to we've been doing, we call hashtag asked to pg because we're the two pg and ah, where people are just writing in questions, poke related questions and we make a really short video like a one minute video answering those questions right on facebook.

The Poker Guys:

We're next week.

Mike:

I don't know when this podcast is coming up next week.

The Poker Guys:

As of right now, we're starting this overdub siri's called poker guys remix where we're taking famous hands and rather than breaking them down, stopping them, break them down like we do in our normal breakdowns were just going to do the commentary instead of having one.

Mike:

Mccarron and norman chad do the commentary kind of see how that goes, yeah, around with that little bit just being analytical it's us being funny is just doing all the stuff we would do, but within the space of just watching the hand and we're just yeah, we're getting rid of the other commentary, which right?

The Poker Guys:

The less good the sub optimal commentary.

Mike:

A cz faras plugging we've done plenty of plugging of our sponsors and stuff, but i would like to talk about what i think is our best two products that we make our poker time, which is the cash game i referred to earlier and it's also sitting, goes where we produce it, we have in our faded table, and we don't do the commentary on, and we think that's a really good show and doesn't have enough viewership for how good it is to be cleared our five tables so people can see the car just like on espn, you can see the car, the player's cards, they can't see each others, of course, and so you will get it sort of window into what they're thinking, what they're doing right?

The Poker Guys:

And our podcast has been slowly gaining popularity for its entire existence, but i'd like it to shoot up a little bit more because in my in my opinion, the best two things we do are poker time and our podcast, which is the breakdown presented by the poker guys or we those air, both the situations were really good to stretch our legs have a little bit more fun with it, yeah, i think those are two things you should check out if you want to know more about the book.

The Poker Guys:

I've definitely checked out the poker time videos, and i watched one of the episodes and i thought the commentary was very well done about the players you guys shows for the particular episode watch.

The Poker Guys:

We're entertaining.

The Poker Guys:

They were good people have in the game, and it was it was a nice mix of if some good aggression and some like over folding because they're on, you know, tv and it was nice.

The Poker Guys:

I thought it was really well done.

The Poker Guys:

So anybody that's actually interested in watching live cash games with commentary, i think this is a good resource and i would recommend it.

The Poker Guys:

Thank you appreciate that.

The Poker Guys:

We absolutely appreciate that.

The Poker Guys:

All right, looks like that's going to wrap it up for us.

The Poker Guys:

Anything.

Mike:

Those guys one eyed, no, thanks for having it has been fun.

The Poker Guys:

All right, thank you.

The Poker Guys:

And for the crypto basic podcast, my name was mike.

Mike:

I was here with grant and jonathan.

The Poker Guys:

Thank you guys so much for tuning in

The members of the CryptoBasic podcast are not financial advisors, and this information is provided for entertainment purposes. Please do your own research, and don't listen to these idiots.

The CryptoBasic Podcast is owned and operated by Cipher Consulting Group LLC.